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Faldage: I am at a loss to understand what the loss is in the change of meaning of the phrase "the lion's share." For one thing it's a cliché and some would prefer it not be used at all... Stealing this off the 'lion's share' where Uncle Ben is not lured back even by an excellent tea party. I'd like to know: when does an idiomatic expression become a cliché. I presume they are not really synonyms. A cliché imo. is an expression that has lost all true meaning. Like: "every cloud has a silver lining". First; it not true, see: no silver lining Second; it's a secure killer of eventual empathy. Could it be most clichés are in fact expressions that have an evasive function ? End of conversation remarks ? The lion's share does not look like a cliché to me.
Last edited by BranShea; 01/27/08 01:40 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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Bran for what it's worth that was my reaction also
dalehileman
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when does an idiomatic expression become a cliché. I presume they are not really synonyms.
Why? The two words are near synonyms, only the connotations of one are pejorative. Like grammar and filth, these connotations are in the mind of the hearer (not listener).
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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"Every cloud has a silver lining " can be used in two ways, positive to cheer one up (for what it's worth), negative to just take an easy way out of someone's problem.
When something bad happens to someone it's easy to throw in: "Ach , well, every cloud etc."
"The lion's share", I don't know maybe to say it right, seems more like a matter of fact thing.
If this is definitely just a personal vieuw , then I'm glad to know.
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Like grammar and filth, these connotations are in the mind of the hearer (not listener). heh
formerly known as etaoin...
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Like grammar and filth, these connotations are in the mind of the hearer (not listener). heh ZM, Yes, this has an air of being funny, but I have no idea what filth has to do with all this. Did I use a dirt word? Or was it not clear that I wrote "presume " in the smallest possible font.
Last edited by BranShea; 01/27/08 06:52 PM.
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Did I use a dirt word?
No, though some might consider cliché to be a dirty word.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Pooh-Bah
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My high school English teacher's definition of a cliche was any expression, especially a synonym or metaphor, that is so overused as to lose impact and which is used instead of thinking creatively of a new phrase. Beet red, high as a kite, etc.
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Did I use a dirt word?
No, though some might consider clich� to be a dirty word. and I thought you were thinking of grammar....
formerly known as etaoin...
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and I thought you were thinking of grammar....
Grammar's a dirty gal, but folks'll git over it.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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any expression [...] that is so overused as to lose impact and which is used instead of thinking creatively of a new phrase
Pity the poor soul who doesn't realize his frisson is (another sod's) cliché. By this definition, most of our English common vocabulary is très cliché and eschew-worthy. Perchance we can all start using Xhosa or Friulian lemmata for quotidian words like the and be.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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shot in the arm has been around for a very long time; whatever it is, it shows no sign of metamorphosing. Coverage of the US presidential horserace has give it a fresh boost—notice I didn't say shot in the arm.
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 I'm not against clichés. It's very tiring to have to invent and hear newitties all the time. I just thought "lion's share" to be an old but useful piece of language. Not a cliché. Which I set against an expression which I think has really lost meaning. That, as I think ZM said , may be a very subjective choice. I guess all languages are full of chlichés.
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Perchance we can all start using Xhosa. Andikwazi ukuthetha isiXhosa. And I can pronounce Xhosa, thanks to you, Nuncle.
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I'm not against clichés. It's very tiring to have to invent and hear newitties all the time. I just thought "lion's share" to be an old but useful piece of language. Not a cliché. I'm with you there, BranShea. I was just saying that the sort of person who complains about language shift happening is also the sort who would complain about (over)use of clichés.
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... It's very tiring to have to invent and hear newitties all the time. ... Yet you just did! And it's a goodie! 
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Andikwazi ukuthetha isiXhosa.
Ndithetha isiXhosa kancinci nje. But seriously: a- 'not' + ndi- 'I' + kwazi 'able', uku- 'to' + thetha 'speak', isi- 'language' + Xhosa 'Xhosa'.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Well this one is new for me. I'm assuming it came onto the scene at the same time as vaccinations.
I've heard, and used, "to give it a shot" to mean "to give it a try", but that's about it.
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In the meantime zmjezhd and Faldage are exchanging the most flagrant clichés in Xhosa....
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