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#171895 - 12/05/07 11:22 PM Re: reindeer [Re: of troy]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
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elk and moose are the same animals? are you sure?

Well, Alces alces, is called moose in New World and elk in Europe. Check out their distribution and this. In the States, there's a large deer also called elk. In Sweden, there is an elk test or "Älgtest in Swedish, [which] has been used in Sweden for decades to test how a certain vehicle, usually an automobile, acts when avoiding a sudden danger, such as a moose."

zmj (many words have many meanings) ezhd

[Corrected typo.]


Edited by zmjezhd (12/06/07 10:56 AM)
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#171900 - 12/06/07 05:38 AM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
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I see people eating caribou. Saami, Inuktitut.

It was a side reference to the fact that while the Santa is on the air mentioning reindeer or caribou combined with "meat" might affect the quality of you presents. I should use the smileys more often.

elk or moose:
There is an interesting novel called "Le Roi des aulnes (The Ogre, aka The Erl King) (1970)by Michel Tournier. Place of action mainly North-East Prussia where the protagonist one day at dusk comes unexpectedly face to face with a gigantic old lone moose. Awsome description. If your interested:
Michel Tournier

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#171907 - 12/06/07 10:09 AM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Online   confused
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I found an English translation, wherein the animals are called elk:

The elk of Canada was blind. Now Tiffauges understood the begging demeanor, the awkward gait, the somnambulistic slowness...

moose and elk (wapiti) are differentiated here, as seen in these pictures.

personal note: the Minnesota zoo has both moose and caribou, kept in expansive areas; they aren't kept together.

I've also seen moose in the wild (from a canoe, at a nice safe distance), in the BWCA of northern Minnesota.

edit: correction for wapiti


Edited by tsuwm (12/06/07 12:57 PM)

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#171912 - 12/06/07 12:19 PM Re: reindeer [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
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Thanks a lot for those links stuwm. Beautiful land and animals.

>The elk of Canada was blind. Now Tiffauges understood the begging demeanor, the awkward gait, the somnambulistic slowness...<

Yes! That's it, good find that matches the book: Tiffauges is a prisoner of war in a concentration camp;he digs a tunnel for a way out. Not to escape (he's got nowhere to go) but to visit a little cabin in the woodlands he calls "Canada".
As long as he makes these sorties he smuggles roots and bread to feed the blind elk.

Edit: tsuwm.Comparing the two pictures of Moose and Waipiti, Tiffauges' elk was a moose. The prolongued head and the 'fernlike' antlers plus the seize make this animal outstanding among all other kinds of deer.



Edited by BranShea (12/06/07 04:28 PM)

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#171925 - 12/06/07 06:20 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Maven Offline
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Registered: 04/27/07
Posts: 120
Loc: California
The Moose distribution map is way off, even by historical standards. Alces alces are present in most of the Rockies, with large populations in Montana, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado. I'm not sure about New Mexico, nor the states further west.

Elk too have populations in the Rockies, notably Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Idaho.

Both animals were primarily plains dwellers until the pioneers settled and started tearing up earth for crops. They gradually moved into the mountains, leaving deer and Pronghorns as the ungulates of the plains.


Edited by Maven (12/06/07 06:21 PM)
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#171929 - 12/06/07 09:12 PM Re: reindeer [Re: Maven]
zmjezhd Offline
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Just to be absolutely clear. Alces alces is called moose in the Western Hemisphere and elk (in English) in the Eastern one (for instance, look at the pictures of elk in this BBC article on the Kostroma Elk farm in Russia). The different species, Cervus canadensis, called elk or wapiti in Canada and the USA. They are similar to the red deer, Cervus elaphus, of Europe. More to the words end of things: Latin alces 'elk' is cognate with Old English eolh, German Elch, Russian лось (los').
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#171932 - 12/07/07 04:07 AM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
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Abolutely clear is also that with the move from Europe to The New World some animal names have brought with them some little confusians. It's the waipiti also being called elk that does it. Like the hare-rabbit thing.
But we need not bicker over these.

Thanks for the new to me word un·gu·lat, Maven !
(Having hooves.)

The different species, Cervus canadensis, called elk or wapiti in Canada and the USA. They are similar to the red deer, Cervus elaphus, of Europe. More to the words end of things: Latin alces 'elk' is cognate with Old English eolh, German Elch, Russian лось (los').

>>Cervus elaphus then comes closest to Dutch " eland ". In the days of PIE and roots and Indo-Germanic migrations we peasants, traders, fishermen did go with alces alces and neither elk nor moose. " Eland " we call'em. Is that so? elaphus - eland, according to Djeem's Law?<<


Edited by BranShea (12/07/07 08:42 PM)

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#172108 - 12/15/07 09:02 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Zed Offline
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Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
so is it a case where a moose is an elk but an elk is not necessarily a moose? I wasn't aware that moose ever lived in the eastern hemisphere.
I came around a corner in a Nova Scotia highway one evening and nearly ran into one, a very bad idea as they can total a car, kill the driver and limp away. The average car will knock there legs out from under them and get a ton of ticked-off moose straight through the windshield.

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#172111 - 12/15/07 11:03 PM Re: reindeer [Re: Zed]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Zed
The average car will knock there legs out from under them and get a ton of ticked-off moose straight through the windshield.


exactly what happened to me. luckily he landed on the passenger side of the roof. which ended up at hood level.
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#172115 - 12/16/07 09:17 AM Re: reindeer [Re: Zed]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
This one is taken in Sweden, the real thing.

moose
Or elk, what 's in a name.
I envy you both , I've never seen one on the wild highway ever in my life.

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