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#166246 - 02/24/07 02:02 PM Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
It's about this:

We had the prepositons a while ago :
at,on,in,to,with etc. You must have automatically learned the prepostions from early childhood on as I did in my language.

But the following I guess you must have been taught to do well:
Words ending on y ye uy ie.
Confusing :
to ly,lie die dye buy by bye bye,to fly rye tie. etc.These words are specially confusing when used in the adjective form. Dying, dyeing , lying , lying?

Is there any memory belp in this matter?
More of those helpful rhymes like Pennyless posted?

"A flea and a fly in a flue
Were stuck, so what could they do?
"Let us flee!" said the fly.
"Let us fly!" said the flea.
So they flew through a flaw in the flue. "


I did this post because from this little rhyme I noticed how a little word learned this way really sticks to memory, ('flue 'new to me and 'flu', which I always wrote as 'flue')

Dictionary look-ups are fine for difficult words and they hang on easy, but those little ones... well maybe memory works differently with each person.






Edited by BranShea (02/25/07 01:20 AM)

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#166247 - 02/26/07 03:45 PM Re: Difficult simple ones
ParkinT Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
There are a handful of mneumonic tricks for keeping track of these sorts of 'difficulties' with the language.
As in "I before E except after C or sounding like A as in neighbor and weigh".*
Many find it equally difficult to differentiate between Accept and Except; so I offer this: remember that to Accept is a very Active operation.
Perhaps that is a poor example but the firs that comes to mind.
==================
*This relates directly to one of my personal peeves. The song that is associated with the US Navy is "Anchors Aweigh" but so often (mis)stated as Anchors Away.
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#166248 - 02/26/07 04:01 PM Re: Difficult simple ones
Myridon Offline
addict

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 557
Loc: Dallas, TX
Quote:

As in "I before E except after C or sounding like A as in neighbor and weigh".*



And many other weird exceptions... it's hardly a science.

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#166249 - 02/26/07 04:21 PM Re: Difficult simple ones
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
Quote:


==================
*This relates directly to one of my personal peeves. The song that is associated with the US Navy is "Anchors Aweigh" but so often (mis)stated as Anchors Away.




In another forum, this came up. When I tried to googling it, I found a very interesting reference on the US Navy's website. One of the USN's unofficial songs is called "Anchors aweigh", and the 1906 version of the lyrics includes the line I have copied and pasted below:

"Anchors Away, my boys, Anchors Aweigh."
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#166250 - 02/26/07 04:39 PM Re: fo'c's'le, laddie
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
"Anchors Away, my boys, Anchors Aweigh."

'Tis pity, that under weigh has since become under way. Or that way became weigh or vice versa.
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Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#166251 - 02/26/07 10:22 PM eye before E accept after sea
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
If it looks funny then to hell with it.

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#166252 - 02/26/07 10:39 PM Re: Difficult simple ones
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
> mneumonic

I like your airor.

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#166253 - 02/27/07 03:43 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:

.
As in "I before E except after C or sounding like A as in neighbor and weigh".*





Mneumonic - Mnemonic. Ach, ParkinT, if you look at my first post you'll find a pretty error as well : " memory belp " and I only saw it now.

Thanks for your advise, though right now this mnemonic seems to me like the cure is worse than the illness. How do I figure this out.

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#166254 - 02/27/07 09:06 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
Curuinor Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Land where ne'er-do-wells rule...
Advise? Period instead of question mark?

Maybe you could make up a mnemonic on the 'complication' of the y: ly to lie or lye.
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#166255 - 02/27/07 09:54 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:


Maybe you could make up a mnemonic on the 'complication' of the y: ly to lie or lye.




Yes, that's the idea . Why don't we make a little contest out of this. See who's quickest. I wouldn't mind being the looser.

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#166256 - 02/27/07 10:40 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I tell the truth.
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#166257 - 02/27/07 11:54 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
WHI would you LI ?

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#166258 - 02/27/07 03:52 PM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
O.K , if I stick this to my desk , I can stop half the search.
Anyone who has to something positive to add is very welcome.
(no, Etaoin, I tell the truth is TOOO easy.)

Whatever I try, am trying or tried
I can't make sense out of die,dye denying
I think I will flee to the Isle of Skye
Slightly unlikely, but so it's I'm lying.
There I may lie under cobalt blue sky ----------------nay, nay not lay!
Or may I fly where the eagles are flying
Till meeting the sun where
my wings will be fried.


And look what the y - world still has in store when it comes to nouns.

Dy :Noun

1. A trivalent metallic element of the rare earth group; forms compounds that are highly magnetic.

Die : Noun
1. Small cubes with 1 to 6 spots on the faces; used to generate random numbers.
2. A device used for shaping metal.
3. A cutting tool that is fitted into a diestock and used for cutting male (external) screw threads on screws or bolts or pipes or rods.


Lye : Noun 1. A strong solution of sodium or potassium hydroxide


Edited by BranShea (02/27/07 04:04 PM)

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#166259 - 02/28/07 02:52 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
olly Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand

Does this work?

I lie,
Y are you lying?

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#166260 - 02/28/07 04:12 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
You see,(thanks for the try ) Olly, this is what puzzles me:

lying


1. Be located or situated somewhere; occupy a certain position.

2. Be lying, be prostrate; be in a horizontal position; "The sick man lay in bed all day"; "the books are lying on the shelf".

3. Originate (in); "The problems dwell in the social injustices in this country".

4. Be and remain in a particular state or condition; "lie dormant".

5. Tell an untruth; pretend with intent to deceive; "Don't lie to your parents"; "She lied when she told me she was only 29".

6. Have a place in relation to something else: "The fate of Bosnia lies in the hands of the West"; "The responsibility rests with the Allies".

7. Assume a reclining position; "lie down on the bed until you feel better".

The fact that lying meaning lying down and telling an untruth is the same word, seems so bizarre and illogic to me. And then there is lay. It always confuses me and I always have to make sure checking that it is OK. And still I make mistakes .

What logic connection is there between 1. and 5. ?

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#166261 - 02/28/07 06:14 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Quote:


What logic connection is there between 1. and 5. ?




Just another reason why "lay" is replacing "lie" as the intransitive verb.

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#166262 - 02/28/07 09:32 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
What logic connection is there between 1. and 5. ?

There is no etymological connection between the two. Before becoming homonyms, the verbs were different in Old English: (1) licgan and (5) léogan.
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#166263 - 02/28/07 11:38 AM Re: Difficult simple ones
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:

What logic connection is there between 1. and 5. ?

There is no etymological connection between the two. Before becoming homonyms, the verbs were different in Old English: (1) licgan and (5) léogan.



Now this is interesting: licgan and léogan became lie down and lie in English.
In Dutch lie and lie is : liggen and liegen. As you see the Dutch words have stayed closer the Old English ones than the New English words.

Now I must guess that licgan became liggen . And léogan became liegen . I like that. (and will just go on making mistakes)

liggen = lie down
liegen = tell a lie


Edited by BranShea (02/28/07 11:41 AM)

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#170557 - 10/11/07 04:23 PM Re: Difficult simple ones [Re: BranShea]
ParkinT Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
Originally Posted By: BranShea
[]What logic connection is there between 1. and 5. ?

There is no etymological connection between the two. Before becoming homonyms, the verbs were different in Old English: (1) licgan and (5) léogan. [/]
Now this is interesting: [:"red"] licgan and léogan [/]became lie down and lie in English.
In Dutch lie and lie is : [:"red"] liggen and liegen[/]. As you see the Dutch words have stayed closer the Old English ones than the New English words.

Now I must guess that licgan became liggen . And léogan became liegen . I like that. (and will just go on making mistakes)

liggen = lie down
liegen = tell a lie

It could be easily argued that to tell an untruth is putting aside (lying or laying down) the facts.
_________________________
"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton

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#170559 - 10/11/07 04:31 PM Re: Difficult simple ones [Re: ParkinT]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
It's all connected then end you're reconnected as well. Good. That's been a while.

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