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You don't mind well, now do you Faldage.
Listen. Your asides are rude. Stuff your private comments in a private message and stop disrupting the continuity of this thread.
Get it!
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here's an aside to you, milum: I think we've pretty well established that not many of us have read FW, or have even tried to read FW, or plan to ever try to read FW. so, I don't think it's surprising that there is even more digression than usual in a thread about FW. would you like us all to leave so that you and HL and jheem can have an in-depth discussion? and who would you have us deliver the message to max?
[JFTR, I've tried to read Ulysses three times, and I never seem to get past the first day. any suggestions?]
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You disappoint me, tswum. The point of THIS thread is that FW (as you call it) is a literary farce or it ain't. I don't have any presumptions about the ability of anyone here deciphering James Joyce. Rather, my presumptions are whether or not the later-day Joyce is worth presuming or not, and I conclude that he ain't.
But as you and others here have poo-pooed the irrelavencies and absurdeties of Joyce, then I must also be rude and challange your stereotypical opinions.
Peace.
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No one "must ... be rude." It is always a (poor) choice.
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> To whom was Joyce writing "Ulysses" and "Finnegans Wake"?
Well, there are so many a questions like this, huh. One that young pale-faced scholars are asked to shed ink over regarding the latter is 'Whose dream is it?'. But I think FW is designed on the kind of talmudic or alchemical notion which means it was intended to be read as code by someone wishing to boot the universe from scratch - after the end of time .... and the extinction of man<g>.
> Why?
It's about time for a reboot.
> 3)
Oh, c'mon. This isn't lit 101 here. 'Novel' is a fairly flimsy term without context. I think most would agree that some kind of narrative should be found in a novel - both the books mentioned contain (or betray) some narrative - the latter just has *all narratives occuring at the same time:-)
> 4)
No.
> 5)
'Complete' enlightenment is beyond comprehension, so too with FW.
> 6)
No. Really, no.
> 7)
Because they are very rich texts and it is easy and fun to make original discoveries.
> 8)
For me, he has confirmed many a suspicion - that the course of time and events that come round are cyclical, repeated in many forms on many levels, and perhaps that the present life we are embedded in really is more significant than one might suppose. That everyday life is important. And milum, have a mulled wine on me will you;)
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Thanks belligerentyouth, for your insights, they reflect your honest and worthy search for meaning in a world somewhat jumbled.
Please allow me to explain why I think that understanding the intent of James Joyce in his writings is so important. First of all Ulysses and Finnaegans Wake do not categorize well so Joyce's intentions become the template for which they can be judged. And as has be noted, you don't just read these two books, you study them. And like reading a thousand page repair manual for a ten thousand vacuum tube UNAVAC computer, it would be pleasant to know that your investment in reading is worthwhile.
I think it ain't. (back in a few minutes)
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>you don't just read these two books, you study them.
a couple of folks here have suggested that perhaps you should "just read" them, if you're going to read them at all. I don't think this view should be just passed over.
Last edited by tsuwm; 12/09/05 09:04 AM.
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> "just read" them Rather than finger them idly? Well probably:-) Meanwhile, Nobel Laureate H. Pinter chimes in on the Joyce front:
Q: Who are some of your heroes? Do you have them?
Pinter: [Laughs.] James Joyce. Yeah. I love Ulysses. Johann Sebastian Bach. And one or two others.
Q: Is it for their art?
Pinter: Yeah. And their independence. Pinter interview.
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Nice Pinter quote.
I have always read books for fun and entertainment. Just because the books and authors I have enjoyed in the past make other people angry is not a criterion for my not reading and enjoying them. Likewise, I learned a long time ago that getting people to read books they a priori don't like is about as much fun as bathing a pig. No, where did I put that Hurro-Urartian Hydronyms Dictionary?
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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> where did I put that Hurro-Urartian Hydronyms Dictionary?
oooooh, nuncle, read us a bedtime stowy, pleeeeee~eeeese?!
The "just read" approach is for many mitigated by the lack of established story-telling structures and points of interest: the very things that make the books so attractive to dryasdust academics, of course. thanx, Anu!
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