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#14834 - 01/06/01 07:48 PM Re: anastrophic 'buts'
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
I'm thinking it may be a way to ameliorate what you say, so as not to cause undue offense, as in the rising intonation at the end of a sentence, apparently originating in Oz but having gained widespread use(age) among American teen-age girls in the last decade....(?*) ['awaiting wet-noodle flogging' emoticon]

Oh, Gawd, are we back to Kylie Mole again? Reeeelly? Well, I mean, she g.. she go.. - she just goes!

The use of 'eh' as an ending emphasis on sentences actually originates in that den of all iniquities, Auckland, New Zealand. It travelled (well) across the Tasman to Oz, where it was taken up with gusto by the non-native native population and probably the native native population as well. From there it could have gone anywhere.

The use of "but" at the end of a sentence is definitely anastrophic, and does mean "however" or "as well", depending on the context. It underwent a little craze here a few years ago, died out, then got revived courtesy of a beer ad on TV. I notice, however, that it is dying out again. I don't know if it originated in NZ. Personally, I suspect those non-native native Ozzies again ...

_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#14835 - 01/08/01 06:56 AM Re: but
NicholasW Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/00
Posts: 393
Loc: London
These sentences don't have the level intonation you or I would use for an uncompleted rider: "Caramel's not bad, but..." (sc. but I prefer strawberry). They have the falling intonation of a complete statement, as you or I would say "But caramel's not bad".



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#14836 - 01/08/01 07:41 AM Origin of rising inflexions, etc
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
I have to challenge the notion that the antipodes gave birth to the rising inflection. It was (and still is) the normal cadence of inhabitants of the eastern counties of UK, known as East Anglia. It possibly goes back to the Danish imigrants of the post-Roman era. I postulate that from the fact that Danish - especially as spoken in Jutland - has a similar tendency.
As I pointed out some while back (and am to ignorant to be able to give the link, and too lazy to find out how!) East Anglia was a prime source of immigrants to Australia (there were subscription clubs, charities and all sorts that provided money for fares to get rid of the blighters - not enough went, though; there's still thousands of 'em in Norwich alone!)

Similarly, I need much more to convince me that either Canadians or Aussies invented the terminal "eh." That has been common in London - especially in the southern parts - for a very long time indeed.


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#14837 - 01/08/01 09:22 AM Re: Origin of rising inflexions, etc
Phyllisstein Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 31
Loc: Cape Town, S. Africa
Wherever it originated that rising inflection certainly seems to have become much more prevalent among American teenagers as Anna noted. Was it ever thus or is it just a fad?

It reminds me of the disgusting habit that teenagers invented some time back of emphasising the "as" in "as well". For example: "I like Chocolate but caramel's good AS well". Did that annoying mannerism take root other than here in South Africa?


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#14838 - 01/08/01 04:40 PM Re: Origin of rising inflexions, etc
Jazzoctopus Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 1094
Loc: Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U...
It reminds me of the disgusting habit that teenagers invented some time back of emphasising the "as" in "as well". For example: "I like Chocolate but caramel's good AS well". Did that annoying mannerism take root other than here in South Africa?

Well, being a teenager myself, I've never heard "as" emphasized like this. But I guess I only can vouch for the Cincinnati area.


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#14839 - 01/09/01 02:20 AM Re: anastrophic 'buts'
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1027
Loc: Switzerland
The use of "but" at the end of a sentence is definitely anastrophic, and does mean "however" or "as well", depending on the context. It underwent a little craze here a few years ago..
In Swiss German we have similar epidemics that befall our everyday language from time to time. Some twenty years ago, every second statement used to be topped with a final questioning "oder?". Neither deputies nor sportspeople were immune against this virus. Now there is the fashion of "natürlich", which is inserted in the most unlikely places, and it sounds quite natural, too.


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#14840 - 01/09/01 11:11 AM Re: but
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
To reply to wow's question. "Why the but?".....

Because.

Further Comment on the original post...

Adding the "but" to the end is simple mangulation of the language through an unnecessary rearranging of the sentence structure. (Maybe that's what an anastrophe is - haven't looked that one up yet.)

Finally, to knock the issue of whether there's a rising or falling inflection on the head - THERE'S NONE!! As a proud user of the word (well, I know it's bad - but hey, this discussion has proven that it's unique!!!), I can say with with authority that it's delivered in a deadpan/laconic manner.

I'm still gonna use it but.

stales



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#14841 - 01/09/01 11:14 AM Re: anastrophic 'buts'
Bobyoungbalt Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 1289
In reply to:

Every second statement topped with


You get introductory words as well as ending words like this. Many years ago, when I was studying German in university, the fashion was to start every second sentence with grundsätzlich (=basically). Although I managed to keep from screaming after hearing this for the 5000th time, I ended up by never taking another German class.


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#14842 - 01/09/01 11:15 AM Re: "Eh" at the end of a sentence
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Northern Territorians and Queenslanders are the prime users of the terminal "Eh" in Oz.

For this reason I jokingly refer to Chardonnay as "Queensland wine".

(Think about it)

stales


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#14843 - 01/09/01 12:30 PM Clarification
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
I brought up the rising intonation as a separate and distinct phenomenon from the "but" thing (which I have never heard). As illustrated by wsieber's "oder?" I postulated both might have something to do with softening the effect of what is said. Now, thanks to He of the Rhuby Slippers, I have learned that the rising inflection may pre-date Australian settlement, you know??


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