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#148121 - 09/24/05 08:11 AM Re: B.C.
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Today the term "we the people" is used by Americans to remind our entrenched government officials that they exist only at our pleasure and discretion.

Good thing we don't talk politics here or I'd probably say that our entrenched government officials don't seem to be getting the message.


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#148122 - 09/24/05 09:57 AM That Faldage.
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
Oh Fallible, your charm is irresistible.
Nobody I know can speak politics while not speaking politics like you.

Will you marry me if I don't win the lottery?




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#148123 - 09/24/05 10:35 AM We the people
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
The Administrative Office of the Courts in the State of Washington has just produced a poster to be hung on the wall in rooms where jurors collect and/or deliberate. It expresses appreciation for those willing to fulfill this duty of citizenship. At the top of the poster, the words "We the people" appear in a Jeffersonian script. I think the message is, as Milum suggests, a unit of thought: that it is "just folks" (as opposed to professional deciders like myself) who form the line between a potentially oppressive government and the citizenry.


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#148124 - 09/24/05 05:53 PM professional deciders
themilum Offline
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Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
Professional deciders like Father Steve are perfect arbitraters except when they ain't Father Steve.

But in matters of the legal protection of the citizens of the United States from the arrogance of government our fate cannot be dependent on the fortunate occurrence of a Father Steve.

Instead we must depend on the written words of our laws.

No Faldage, we are not talking politics.
We are instead talking about understanding a pact of words that we entered into with ourselves over two hundred years ago.

And that pact happens to be written in the English language and we, as those who have a extraordinary interest in the English language, can contribute somewhat to the public's understanding of this contract; at the very least we can contribute more than those who don't share our interest in language.

So tell me Faldage, what is political about that?




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#148125 - 09/24/05 06:16 PM Re: preempting Godwin's Law?
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
we are not talking politics

OK, I'll bite. What part of "we the people" don't you understand, (or do you find ungrammatical)? "We" is the subject of the first sentence in the preamble to the US pact of words, version 2.0, and "the people" is an appositive noun phrase that qualifies that "we". I don't see that there is anything to "decide" here, except whether we discuss words even less while descending into some political idle chat/rant.

_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#148126 - 09/24/05 07:00 PM Re: professional deciders
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
The Milum's kind words made an old justiciar blush .



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#148127 - 09/25/05 11:52 AM Re: preempting Godwin's Law?
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
we are not talking politics

OK, I'll bite. What part of "we the people" don't you understand, (or do you find ungrammatical)? "We" is the subject of the first sentence in the preamble to the US pact of words, version 2.0, and "the people" is an appositive noun phrase that qualifies that "we".


Why of course, zmjezhd, (am I pronouncing that right?) you are certainly right in as far as you go, but in this case you don't go far enough. You are speaking as a dictionary or as a textbook of proper grammar might. Sure thing, the accepted form and meaning of a word is great fun to tally, and if we didn't have tsuwm and Google it might be of some great worth. But today we also know that words are changelings; flighty things, unstable things, things that are made from ethereal stuff, rather than exacting things cut deep in stone. You know, like humans.

Foolish me, if you love words then you already know that...sorry for the digression. Quickly, let's go to the second sentence of your remarks.

I don't see that there is anything to "decide" here, except whether we discuss words even less while descending into some political idle chat/rant.

Ok. Now if one was of a certain wont one would ascribe your imperial manner to the understandable bluster of a relatively new member to the Awad board, but this one won't.
Instead I will address your declaration directly, as follows...

The either-or-ness of your statement seems incidental.
A discussion of politics would not interfere with any discussion of "words as Words"; these pages are spacious and action is slow.

Yet I agree that discussions of politics are not within the intended scope of Awadtalk.

Political forums abound and many are ugly. But on the other hand "words" pervade all aspects of human existence, including politics, and so to chastise and taboo any reference to the political world will always be folly.
Even by those who have only the best of interests at heart for this forum and want very much to keep it civil.

I certainly agree with the "civil" part; but it would be so nice for a visit here to be friendly and cordial and exciting as well.

I hope this didn't sound too imperial.








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#148128 - 09/25/05 05:24 PM which people are those?
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
>>>But today we also know that words are changelings; flighty things, unstable things, things that are made from ethereal stuff, rather than exacting things cut deep in stone.

You know what I've learned from being here so long...this sentence is true.

It seems that words migrate in meanings over the years. A word can have meant a very definite thing in the past, and now, means something completely different, sometimes even the opposite of the orginal meaning. The word "NICE" is a good example. (I won't go into the different definitions that it had over the years, we've discussed it here before at length, so no point in having a YART)

So, if you all had to look at it, would you say that the intent/meaning of the sentence that started "We, the people..." has changed from when it was written those 200+ years ago.

I've not read your declaration of independance so can't really voice an opinion, but there are plenty of U.S.ners on Board, so I thought I'd ask.


(Ooops, should this have been in Q&A??? )

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#148129 - 09/25/05 08:27 PM Re: preempting Godwin's Law?
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
I hope this didn't sound too imperial.

Not at all. You are free to do what you like. Go and do it. Here or there. For the record, I did not tell you not to discuss politics, I just bemoaned the increased noise-to-signal ratio that comes from such discourse.

_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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