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Hi!
I'm a Finnish student of translation and interpretation. At the moment, I'm writing my master's thesis on taboo expressions and their offensiveness. My material consists of a Finnish novel Under the North Star (original Finnish version and English translation). As a part of my thesis, I'm testing the offensiveness of some expressions with a questionnaire. The questionnaire is at the pilot stage, but I would like to know if there is interest among the users of this forum to fill it out when the form is finished? The only requirement is that the respondents are native English speakers (preferrably American).
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Yes Milla, I would be happy to answer your questionaire because I am not easily offended. I am not offended because you prefer Americans speakers of English. This only offends the British speakers of English who are easily offended, which I ain't. Fire away... 
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> This only offends the British speakers of
English who are easily offended, which I ain't.
Milo here demonstrates two platitudes:
1. Only those British speakers of English predisposed to get offended will end up offended
b. He's not a member of that set
Well, we sure knew that, Milo :)
Good luck with the survey, Miia - be glad to help if a mere non-American can slip through the mesh!
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I, too, would be happy to join your team of lab rats.
Pay milum and mav no never mind. They just like chewing on each other.
BTW, is your name really Miiä? I ask only in the interest of vowel harmony.
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> They just like chewing on each other
Nope. Milo is non-discriminatory, in that he assumes 'not American speakers of English' = 'British speakers of English'. This board also has many other members of the family of international Englishes represented. Even Alabama, where they nearly speak English. ;)
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Sure, Miia--I'll be glad to help; it sounds very interesting. Several years ago, there was a British clerk in the office where I worked, and one day I asked her whether our "f**k" was more or less the equivalent of their "bloody". She was deadpan at the first word but her eyes widened at the second one, just as above I couldn't bring myself to spell out our word but had no trouble with the British one.
Oh, yes--it was very intelligent of you to find this place and seek respondents!
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> Oh, yes--it was very intelligent of you to find this place and seek respondents!
Funk that! Vituperation metres around here must be terrible - what with all the abuse hurled.
... just kidding Miia, I'm sure the board members participating can navigate the mine fields of gutter talk with subtle and competent virtuosity.
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First of all, to Faldage: No, my name is actually spelled Miia. It's of Swedish origin (Mia), but with a Finnish spelling. Both are used in Finland, as well as Piia (Pia), Tiia (Tia is possible, but I've never heard it used in Finland) and Kiia (Kia). Vowel I is quite easy in Finnish, since it can be used with both A and Ä, e.g. liata (to make something dirty) and siistiä (to clean something up), and also with all other vowels.
Second, I did not mean to offend anyone by requesting American English speakers. There are actual reasons for this: the target audience of the translation is American, and conventions of translating are different in American and British culture, which is the reason why some Finnish novels are translated differently to these target cultures, and this is crucial in translation studies...
Happy Easter to everyone, and thank you in advance for those who have already volunteered. More the merrier, so everyone can still participate!
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Hi, Miia! I'm also of the US group and would like to help you out in your questionnaire. I work occasionally as a translator (Portuguese to English) and I know how sensitive and important such issues can be!
I hope you will stick around and maybe participate in other topics. I too have questions about Finnish and may ask you some from time to time, if you don't mind. I think you are the first person from Finland or, really, from any of the Finno-Ugric countries to post here.
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Thank you for the explication, Miia. As you may have noticed we love yattering at each other about the respective values of our Englishes. I hope you stay around after your survey.
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Welcome Miia. I don't mind helping with your questionnaire.
Since you're talking about taboo expressions though, it might be a good idea to put it in one of the less-used forums (like "looking for writers") with an initial post saying that there are taboo expressions and anybody who might be sensitive to this type of thing can skip that thread and not be offended.
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Hi, Miia. I'd be glad to help, too. I'm from New York, which is somewhere between the US and the UK, if that's alright.
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New York moved out into the Atlantic??
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Well, it *is an island off New Jersey.
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New York moved out into the Atlantic??
linguistically, it's always been there!
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<<Well, it *is an island off New Jersey.>>
Only since New Jersey was lopped off of it.
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I'm in. Send me a PM. Fair warning: my *offensive gauge is busted. 
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What about Canadian English? It isn't American, and it isn't British. In the dialectic continuum, we are the ones who understand both sides (and have a double ration of swear words, bonus!) Can Canadians play, Miia?
Incidentally, do you know the difference between a Canadian and an American? The difference is, the Canadian knows the difference.
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> The difference is, the Canadian knows the difference.
thus also demonstrating delightful appreciation of irony! :)
PS I think there's a difference between dialectal and dialectic, at least on this side of the pond (he says carefully...)
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you mean something such as this, mav?
I nearly didn't add this post, because it didn't seem to add anything to the dialectic of the forum...
;)
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> the dialectic of the forum
:)
Now Dr Who is back on TV, I suppose we need to add Dalektical to the list...
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>Now Dr Who is back on TV
and Who knows when we'll see it here!? <scowling>
(is the new Doc-tor anyone of note?)
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Can Canadians play, Miia?
Yep, since the publisher is Canadian, and thus it can be assumed that the novel is sold there too :)
Little aside of the topic, I have always wondered, why my education makes a huge difference between British and American English (we have specific lecture series for both cultures etc.) but ignores totally Australian, Canadian, and all other English speaking cultures. This could be explained by the lack of natives from those regions (the lecturers are always native, and we have one American and two Brits in our school), but in my opinion, it does not explain it totally. Translations are done from and to these cultures also, and the poor knowledge some Finnish translators have on these cultures may have an effect on them.
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re: appreciation of irony
Well, Canadians are known for self-deprecating humour, and, in fact, humour of all kinds. Gotta have a sense of humour when you live in a country where the unit of currency is the loonie.
I'll run and look up "dialectic" and "dialectal" right away. But I was quoting from a comparative linguistics course I took back at university - when the mountains were cooling, don'tcha know. The professor taught us about dialectic continua, where village A and village B could understand each other, and B and C, and maybe A and C a bit, but A and E were mutually incomprehensible.
I wonder if the passing-over of nationalities of English that are neither American nor British has to do with a) status as world powers (Britain ruled the world at one time, the US seems to rule it now, can't think of another English-speaking nation that ever did the same) or b) aggression. Neither Canada nor Australia made war in order to become independent of Mother England - we just kinda moved out and got our own apartments. Maybe we're not interesting enough?
Okay, here's proof Canadian English is different. All you Canadians out there, let the non-Canucks guess this one. What's a toque, and how do you say it?
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a tip of the hat to you, EC...
formerly known as etaoin...
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Miia, your thesis topic reminds me of an experience I had the first time I visited England. I was staying in a hostel, and there was a young Japanese guy there who was collecting nicknames for different nationalities. He wanted them all, didn't care if they were offensive or not, he was just compiling a list. We all enthusiastically helped him with his list, carefully pointing out which nicknames were OK in polite company, and which others would get him a severe stomping. A few nights later he took EVERYONE who had helped him with the list out to dinner at a Japanese restaurant!!
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Only the tip? Nicely done, etaoin.
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well, I suppose as a Vermonter I should have put a cap on it, but... anyway, here's a site I came across today: http://home.ncia.com/~slarsson/USUK.htmlI expect many of these are on Max's site, but it's a good compendium.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Well, as a New Zealander I think that we appreciate the differences between the various versions of the language pretty well. We are constantly bombarded by media from both sides of the Atlantean Pond, plus we are frequently further polluted by what happens on the other side of the Local Ditch. Moreover, we are frequently subjected to South East Asian versions of our own language, some of which take a lot of assimilation.
Good luck with the thesis, Miia.
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some of which take a lot of assimilation Egad--the Borg have taken over New Zealand! Run for your lives!
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> the Borg
or Daleks, one.
formerly known as etaoin...
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After a couple misfortunes, the questionnaire is finally published! Here's a link: http://cc.joensuu.fi/~mmattila/questionnaire.htmI have agreed with the translator to take the questionnaire out after four weeks, or as soon as I get the required number of answers. So, native American and Canadian English speakers needed
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I'd been wondering if we'd ever see it, Miia!
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I've completed your survey, Miia.
I'd love to hear the results of your study when you're done.
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Ditto - can you let us know?
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Jackie: I was wondering too, if I could ever publish it Copyright things take time, especially if one chooses to send an email to the publisher... Should have mailed the translator in the first place, but the Finnish publisher doubted if he'd have the copyrights. Luckily he did, and I did not have to wait anymore! And about the publishing of the results, I've intended to publish my thesis (has to be written in English) also, since the Finnish respondents have also inquired some kind of summary of the results and information on how the novel has been translated. This would happen probably in October. The summaries could be published as early as in late June/early July, and I will naturally post a link here when I'm done. However, they will not have much background information or analysis, since I'm usually a bit slow in pondering these kinds of questions Happy to see that people are responding this fast!
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Should have mailed the translator in the first place Gosh, I'll bet that would take a big box...
Joke--that was a joke!
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edited Jackie: (had to take the previous thing off, I feel SO stupid right now  A solemn oath: I will never ever read this board again at 3 a.m. and after a few glasses of wine!)
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Na-ah, you were fine. We do that kind of thing all the time!
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bet that would take a big box
Oooh, Jackie, you naughty girl...is that "box" in the - um - mildly obscene sense?
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I would be delighted to participate, and delightfully surprised if you can offend me.
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I agree, Alex.
I did the survey, and after my answers I left her with these additional thoughts: I think this may be presumptious
"Better a pound of sugar than twenty pounds of shit". I put "1 - mild" for this one, even though it is a word that only describes something specific and would not be considered offensive at all to me in this context. I think you should have a choice of answers that is " "0.5 indifferent", and many of my "1-mild" and many of my "0 cannot specify" answers would then be "0.5 indifferent". "Goddamn" is a word that I just don't hear much, at all. I know it is offensive to some which is why I call it "mild" but it has no specific meaning to me, and after a while just becomes gratuitous... almost a chant-like part of the language. Most slang is like that for me. Just another part of the language. Thanks for an interesting read."
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My comments were to the effect that "goddamn" and its variants seemed over-represented, while the really offensive words in my opinion (c*nt, f*ck, and n#gger come to mind) were not addressed.
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is that "box" in the - um - mildly obscene sense? No, no; just picturing mailing a person...
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Hello, miia, and welcome! I hope you stick around for awhile! I submitted my questionnaire from my US English/Mid-Atlantic Region (New Jersey) perspective. What a fascinating study! Hope I could be of some help. The only comment I had was that I thought that goddamn would more accurately translate as goddammit in the context it appeared (probably overly so, though).
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No doubt my education has been sadly lacking in some respects, or maybe I just don't watch enough N. American TV, but what is the midly obscene meaning of box?
Bingley
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Done Miia. I sent off the questionaire a minute ago. Good luck with your thesis.
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Aloha. Miia, glad to have you aBoard!
I'm off to do the poll.
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Dear all, I have now gone through the comments you submitted with the questionnaire. They can be read in: http://cc.joensuu.fi/~mmattila/comments.htm
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Thanks for posting this, Miia. One comment on the preposition thing that the last respondent mentioned. It's not just a postposition vs. preposition thing. Spanish, for example, uses prepostions, but uses the sme word for situations where we would use either in or on. Spanish speakers have problems deciding which to use when speaking English. And it's not just prepositions. In Spanish there are two different forms of the verb to be and we have trouble sometimes deciding which to use if we're trying to speak Spanish.
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