#14087 - 12/30/00 10:36 AM
Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
stranger
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 12
Loc: Earth
|
I don't know if chimerical was a word used in A Word A Day, but it is a good one for this theme. Chimerical means absurd; wildly fanciful. It comes from the creature Chimera in Greek mythology, a fire breathing monster with a lion's head, a goat's body and a serpent's tail.
Does anyone have some other words that would fit in with the "Classical Mythology" theme?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14089 - 12/30/00 09:57 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
|
I don’t have any new word to add to your quest lastday, I simply want to welcome you on Board.
In case you do not get many replies do not be too discouraged. This part of the Board does not show up entirely on my screen (and I have a pretty large screen) so it probably does not show up on most people’s either. Most of the activity is in the top subjects and we rarely see any posting in this section since it is under the heading of OLD weekly themes that have been consolidated. I only found your questions because I was fiddling about and scrolled down.
Come on up top and chat a while. The subjects are quite varied and you are most welcome.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14091 - 12/31/00 05:43 AM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
|
Didn't see a posting from Helen here, tsuwm. But welcome, Lastday. Would you care to explain to me what your homepage is about?  Cheers -
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14092 - 01/02/01 02:31 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
stranger
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 12
Loc: Earth
|
My homepage: it is supposed to be about literature. I really started it hoping that it would force me to write something everyday, a self improvement thing. It has not worked as well as I had hoped. But maybe I can updated this week. I hope other people will find it useful.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14094 - 01/02/01 04:03 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10464
Loc: this too shall pass
|
the worthless word for the day is: rhadamanthine http://www.quinion.com/words/weirdwords/ww-rha2.htmalso, dictionary.com's word of the day: stentorian which "comes from Stentor, a Greek herald in the Trojan War. According to Homer's Iliad, his voice was as loud as that of fifty men combined." -joe (this space for rent) friday
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14095 - 01/02/01 06:16 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
|
Have to agree with Joe Friday on this one - although (had I known of its existence) I might well have applied it, justly or not, to my parents at various times ...
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14097 - 01/04/01 01:37 AM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
|
No, no, it was my uncle who was the sergeant-major. And he never raised his voice ...
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14098 - 01/05/01 10:54 AM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
|
>And he never raised his voice ...
That is often scarier.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14099 - 01/05/01 03:18 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
|
Yep, he was a Warrant Officer First Class - highest non-commissioned rank in the army. He was a short man - just a bit over 5ft 3in - and giants trembled at his approach. This included all commissioned ranks up to about Major as well as the other ranks ... and everyone over Major listened to what he had to say very carefully. Now THAT is power. I've always aspired to it but never managed to come anywhere near achieving it. 
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14100 - 04/07/01 01:24 AM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14102 - 04/09/01 12:25 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
journeyman
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 60
Loc: Oregon, USA
|
lastday, chimera is also a term from genetics meaning "an organism consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition, produced as a result of mutation, grafting, or the mixture of cell populations from different zygotes." (definition swiped from dictionary.com)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14103 - 04/09/01 06:33 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14104 - 04/10/01 08:46 AM
Re: Words from Germanic Myths
|
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1773
|
The American Heritage Dictionary summarizes the weekday homage to Germanic gods thusly: The names of the days of our week are based on the ancient astrological notion that the seven celestial bodies (sun, moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn) revolving around the stationary Earth influenced events on Earth and that each the bodies controlled the first hour of the day named after it. The system was brought into Hellenistic (hi of Troy!) Egypt from Mesopotamia. In 321 AD, Constantine the Great grafted the system onto the Roman calendar and declared the sequence: Dies Solis, Dies Lunae, Dies Martis, Dies Mercurii, Dies Iovis, Dies Veneris, and Dies Saturni. The Roman system was adopted throughout western Europe, and in the Germanic languages, including Old English, four of the Roman gods were converted into the corresponding Germanic gods. So: Sunnandaeg, Monandaeg, Tiwesdaeg (the god Tiu, like Mars, was a god of war), Wodensdaeg (the god Woden, like Mercury, was quick and eloquent), Thunresdaeg (the god Thunor (OE) or Thor (ON), like Jupiter, was lord of the sky), Frigedaeg (the goddess Frigg, like Venus, was the goddess of love), and Saeternesdaeg. The same source lists "Tiu" as the Germanic god of war and the sky, and says its source is "OE Tiw. See deiw-" The Indo-European roots index entry for "deiw-" tells us that diew means to shine, and in many derivatives, sky, heaven, god. It also says that "Tiwes" is the genitive of "Tiu." [finally, the answer!] Important derivatives of "deiw" include Tuesday, deity, divine, jovial, July, Jupiter, Zeus, dial, diary, dismal, journey and psychedelic. (Ha! I didn't expect to tie all those terms together today. Thanks, Max, for getting me started on this. )
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14105 - 04/10/01 04:41 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14107 - 05/08/01 09:23 AM
Re: Words from Germanic Myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
and presumably frigging.
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14108 - 05/08/01 09:41 AM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
In reply to:
What about words derived from other mythologies?
Shaman, djinn, banshee.
Would you believe banshee has made its way into Indonesian? The meaning has changed somewhat though. Transvestism/trans-sexuality is a much more openly acknowledged reality here than in European-derived cultures, and it can be very difficult sometimes to tell the difference. Going back to the nineteen sixties, apparently English speaking foreigners used to call transvestite/trans-sexual prostitutes banshees from their habit of calling out to potential customers. This was then adopted as a slang term by Indonesians in the slightly altered form of banci (pronounced ban-chee). The more neutral term, in case you were wondering, is wadam (a portmanteau word from wanita (woman) and Adam) or waria (again a portmanteau word from wanita and pria (man)).
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#14110 - 05/25/01 09:18 PM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
stranger
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 12
Loc: Earth
|
In reply to:
lastday, chimera is also a term from genetics meaning "an organism consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition, produced as a result of mutation, grafting, or the mixture of cell populations from different zygotes."
considering this, I guess this might have been a good word for Words from Medicine as well.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14112 - 06/05/01 02:28 AM
Re: Words from Greek or Roman myths
|
addict
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 618
Loc: Australia
|
As far as I can tell, just about anything would be good for Words from Medicine.
Rapport was established superficially.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14113 - 11/06/01 07:14 AM
Post deleted by Wordwind
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14114 - 11/06/01 09:28 AM
Re: Stentor
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I think I recall reading somewhere that Stentor, while useful, was not really admired by the Greeks, and regarded as a loudmouth. Off on a tangent, an idea we get from mythology is the use of a ball of string to find way back out of a maze, after Ariadne's giving Theseus a ball of string to escape from the Labyrinth, after slaying the Minotaur. But our word "clue" apparently is not the Greek word. Who remembers that? I don't. There are a lot of mythology sites. Here is a fairly good one to start with: http://www.oup-usa.org/sc/0195143388/glossaries/phrase_s.html
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14116 - 11/06/01 05:25 PM
Re: Sphinx
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I took this quote out of URL above, because it might interest others as it did me, to learn etymology of word "sphinx" I had also forgotten there was more than one sphinx
The sphinx terrorized Thebes before the arrival of Oedipus (see Oedipal Complex). She was a hybrid
creature with the head of a woman, body of a lion, wings of an eagle, and the tail of a serpent. She
punished those who failed to answer her riddle with strangulation (the Greek verb sphingein means to
strangle). At some point the Greek sphinx became associated with Egyptian iconography, in which the
sphinx had a lion's body and a hawk's or man's head. When we liken someone to a sphinx, we have in
mind the great riddler of the Greeks and not the Egyptian conception. A sphinx is an inscrutable person,
given to enigmatic utterances (the Greek word ainigma means a riddle).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14117 - 11/06/01 07:12 PM
Post deleted by Wordwind
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14118 - 11/06/01 07:57 PM
Re: Sphinx
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear WW: The Greeks put masks on the actors to keep them from developing a star cult and fancy salaries.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14120 - 11/07/01 11:40 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I onder,which bothered Oedipus the more, patricide or incest?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14121 - 11/07/01 04:01 PM
Re: Patricide
|
enthusiast
Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 387
Loc: Hartsville, New York.
|
I would be more bothered by the incest. He dedn't know it was his father, and dad wasn't alive to remind him all the time after he found out. Anyway incest is grosser.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14122 - 11/07/01 06:21 PM
Re: .
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14123 - 11/07/01 07:59 PM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear WW: one case in which a young man's having a middle-aged mistress was not a good idea.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14126 - 11/08/01 08:30 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
Faldage: My reference for Oed was Sophocles...
And, yes, it wasn't an ology site per se, but it was a site to access ologies and no one had even gotten me that close. I wonder whether siteology is a fast-growing study?
WW
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14128 - 11/08/01 01:55 PM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
Well, Faldage, good point about Jesus Christ, Super Star, so I'm all ears about your Oedipus who differs from Sophocles' Oed. Tell your tale here, if you get a chance. In the Graves you mention, it's flat-out stated that Oedipus knew he was killing the king of Thebes? And that, by killing the Sphinx, he was forgiven and then married the queen? Or was it more planned? Did he fall in love with the queen, kill the king, solve the riddle, marry the queen, bring about the plague, learn the truth, blind himself a la Sophocles, and so on....or does is the Graves completely different?
This is very, very interesting. So, if you have a moment to jot the Graves Oed facts down, thanks a lot. I'd look 'em up myself, but I've got rehearsal with the Munchkins to plan for...
Best regards,
WW
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14130 - 11/09/01 07:56 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
Faldage: Looking forward to hearing about the Graves. Thanks for checking it out. I won't be able to read anything this weekend till Sunday due to our rural phones lines being down.... But, anyway, good luck with getting AnnaS all set up, and happy hunting through the Graves. (Gosh, that sounds lugubrious!)
WW
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14131 - 11/09/01 10:37 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Not salubrious, but not necessarily lugubrious. One man's grave robbing is another man's archaeology.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14132 - 11/11/01 09:04 PM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
So true, wwh, about the archaeology. We used to have mummies displayed in the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, but I don't think any may be viewed anymore. I'll have to check it out one weekend to see whether there are any that remain, so to speak.
I can understand how sensitive people would protest the display, but, honestly, those mummies were the highpoint of visits by most children...
MM Murmuring Mummy, or WordWind upside-down
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14133 - 11/12/01 12:46 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
Immanuel Velikovsky had the theory that the story of Oedipus was actually a memory of the pharaoh Akhenaten, but I forget why.
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14135 - 11/12/01 11:41 AM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Worlds in Collision, 1950, and Earth in Upheaval, 1955. Velikovsky suffered permanent concussion from writing this.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14136 - 11/12/01 08:10 PM
Re: The Oresteia/Mourning Becomes Electra
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
|
Eugene O'Neill very consciously encased his great play, Mourning Becomes Electra, within the patterened shell of the Greek Electra myth, in a loose parallel of Aeschylus' timeless tragedy, The Oresteia. Only O'Neill set his work in post-Civil War New England among a Yankee aristocratic family, the Mannons. Lot's of Oedipal subtext! Read O'Neill's play... all the answers are there! Really.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14137 - 11/13/01 05:04 PM
Re: sphinx
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
|
F notes that the Sphinx's riddle is glossed from a whole nother story.
Hercules, is it not? Or is my nose out of joint?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14138 - 11/13/01 07:02 PM
Re: Patricide
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
|
Bingley wrote, Immanuel Velikovsky had the theory that the story of Oedipus was actually a memory of the pharaoh Akhenaten...
If you Google ["Immanuel Velikovsky" Oedipus], there's some really interesting information about Velikovsky's analysis of why the Oedipus myth came out of Egyptian lore. Faldage suggested I check it out, and I did. One salient point Velikovsky made was the appearance of the sphinx in Sophocles, a most decidedly un-Grecian monster and ultra-Egyptian one. Velikovsky also points out that the meeting of the three roads where Oedipus kills his father in the Sophocles tragedy would have been unusual in how roads were laid in Greece, but not unusual in roads meeting at an oasis as shown on ancient Egyptian maps. There's by far more fodder at the trough of Velikovsky if you have some time....
Best regards,
DubDub
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14141 - 11/14/01 09:37 AM
Re: Sphinges
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I was interested to learn that the etymology of "Sphinx" carries forward to two very vital structures in the human alimentary canal, exceedingly important check points! The duodenal sphincter and the,er, final one.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14143 - 01/03/02 04:16 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
We've all heard that poor Ariadne gave that turd Theseus who was to betray her,
a ball of string to help him find his way back out of the Labyrinth after killing the
Minotaur. From this we get clew, meaning a ball of cord, and also clue, meaning
information leading to a solution of a problem. But WHAT IN HELL DID ARIADNE
CALL IT?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14145 - 01/03/02 04:29 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
OK, wise guy. WHAT IN HELL DID THESEUS CALL IT?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14146 - 01/03/02 08:53 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 2636
Loc: Caribbean
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14147 - 01/03/02 10:19 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I'm really interested in finding out what the Greek or Roman words would have been for a ball of twine. They must have had words. Why do we have only a much later, apparently Germanic word?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14148 - 01/04/02 03:14 AM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14151 - 01/05/02 07:45 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14152 - 01/05/02 07:50 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I have news for you (expletive omitted). For thousands of years women had been spinning, if only with a whorl spindle, and they had to carefully wind the yarn into a ball, to keep it from getting tangled. The Theseus-Ariadne myth is very old. I have no idea when it first saw print, nor any idea when it was first translated into English. NicholasW gave a couple words that were in the ballpark, but did not mean balls of thread. But the first translation had to be from a Greek or Roman word that was for no reason I can think of changed to a Germanic root. Incidentally twine means two threads twisted together for increased strength.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14153 - 01/05/02 08:02 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14155 - 01/06/02 12:53 AM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14156 - 01/06/02 10:01 AM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I don't have any proof the Greeks spoke Greek, nor any that the Latins spoke Latin. They probably wrote in English. Or maybe Gaelic.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14158 - 01/06/02 04:29 PM
Re: Sine glomere
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear Faldage: My point is this. What was the source of the English version of the legend? I would like to find it, to see if I could find the word that some idiot used a Germanic root for, when he could, I'm sure, have made a nice coinage from the classical root. Rooti-toot-toot.Cocking a snook.
I've been having fun looking, but have not found anything worth posting about. Hoped you might succeed where I have been unable to.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14160 - 01/06/02 06:44 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14161 - 01/07/02 12:37 PM
Re: Sine glomere
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear Max: I still wonder what Greek or Latin text was the source of the legend in English.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14162 - 01/07/02 02:28 PM
.
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14163 - 01/07/02 04:00 PM
Re: Sine glomere
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
I was hoping our illustrious contributor NicholasW might be able to provide that.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14165 - 01/11/02 02:52 PM
Re: Unus glomus
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Thanks for the "clews" Faldage. I anticipate problems untangling that mountain of manuscripts.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14167 - 01/11/02 03:55 PM
Re: Alterus glomus
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear Faldage: I have given up buying books. Indications are that I will be unable to read before very long. I have hardly room for computer manuals. Have to throw books away.If I can't find it on Internet, I have to do without.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14169 - 01/11/02 07:18 PM
Re: Alterus glomus
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear Faldage: thank you for your kind consideration. My hearing is far worse impaired than my vision.That's why AWADtalk is my only form of recreation. I read a couple magazines with a six inch magnifying glass, and can occasionally find a word to use here, but that's it. Probably as the Katzenjammer Kids used to say, I brung it on myself.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14171 - 01/12/02 09:20 AM
Re: Alterus glomus
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear consuelo: At least hair didn't grow on my palms.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14173 - 01/13/02 07:28 AM
Re: Sine glomere
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
I am an idiot, I forgot to look in the obvious place. Perseus also has Sir Thomas North's translation of Plutarch's life of Theseus (this is the translation Shakespeare used for his plays "Julius Caesar" and "Anthony and Cleopatra"). The relevant part says in English:
Furthermore, after he was arrived in Creta, he slew there the Minotaur (as the most part of ancient authors do write) by the means and help of Ariadne: who being fallen in fancy with him, did give him a clue of thread, by the help whereof she taught him, how he might easily wind out of the turnings and crancks of the labyrinth. ( http://perseus.csad.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:1999.03.0078&query=chapter=#281&layout=&loc=Thes. 18) Plutarch also uses the Greek word linon I mentioned in my previous post. However, I have this idea that Sir Thomas North did not translate direct from the Greek, but translated a French (?) translation of Plutarch into English. Also relevant is Chaucer's Legend of Good Women (I had a vague feeling Chaucer wrote about Theseus and found this by googling Chaucer Theseus Ariadne, where I found a reference to the Legend of Good Women amongst all the stuff about the Knight's Tale, which is about a different episode in Theseus's life, and then googling Chaucer Legend of Good Women). Lines 2012 to 2018 read: And, for the hous is crinkled to and fro,
And hath so queinte weyes for to go --
For hit is shapen as the mase is wroght --
(130) Therto have I a remedie in my thoght,
That, by a clewe of twyne, as he hath goon,
The same wey he may returne anoon,
Folwing alwey the threed, as he hath come.
( http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/GoodWomen/ariadne.html) I'll leave it to someone else to find something on Chaucer's sources for this or to push it further back. Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14174 - 01/13/02 05:37 PM
Re: Sine glomere
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear Bingley: That Chaucer site is marvelous. If I read it right, Ariadne and her sister Phedre plot to give Theseus "balls of towe and wax" with which to choke the Minotaur, because in the Labyrinth there is not room to use a sword or spear. The word "clewe of twyne" is also used to help him find his way out, after killing the bull with a dagger (presumably) provided by the jailer.
I wonder why he used both words. Perhaps to fit his meter better?
And we shul make him balles eek also
Of wexe and towe, that, whan he gapeth faste,
(120) Into the bestes throte he shal hem caste
To slake his hunger and encombre his teeth;
And right anon, whan that Theseus seeth
The beste achoked, he shal on him lepe
To sleen him, or they comen more to-hepe.
2010 This wepen shal the gayler, or that tyde,
Ful privily within the prison hyde;
And, for the hous is crinkled to and fro,
And hath so queinte weyes for to go --
For hit is shapen as the mase is wroght --
(130) Therto have I a remedie in my thoght,
That, by a clewe of twyne, as he hath goon,
The same wey he may returne anoon,
Folwing alwey the threed, as he hath come.
And, what that he this beste hath overcome,
2020 Then may he fleen awey out of this drede,
And eek the gayler may he with him lede,
And him avaunce at hoom in his contree,
Sin that so greet a lordes sone is he.
This is my reed, if that he dar hit tak
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14175 - 04/25/02 03:10 PM
Post deleted by SilkMuse
|
member
Registered: 04/25/02
Posts: 170
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14177 - 04/25/02 06:09 PM
Re: Please give me a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
|
Dear SilkMuse: I think "swine" goes back further than Germanic in origin: e.g. Latin "sus"
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
Appendix I
Indo-European Roots
ENTRY:
s-
DEFINITION:
Pig. Contracted from *su-; probably a derivative of seu-1.1. Suffixed form
*su-no-. a. swine, from Old English swn, swine; b. keelson, from Old Norse
svn, swine. Both a and b from Germanic *swnam. 2. Suffixed form *su-k-. a. (i)
hog, from Old English hogg, hog, from British Celtic *hukk-, from Celtic expressive
form *sukko-, swine, snout of a swine; (ii) socket, from Anglo-Norman soc,
plowshare, perhaps from Celtic *sukko-; b. sow2, from Old English sugu, sow,
from Germanic *sug. 3. Basic form *s-. sow2, from Old English s, from
Germanic *s-. 4. soil2, from Latin ss, pig. 5. Hyades, hyena; hyoscine, from Greek
hs, swine. (Pokorny s-s 1038.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#14178 - 04/25/02 11:30 PM
Re: a clue
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
|
may we assume that "swine" means two pigs twisted together?
We may assume anything we please. Sometimes reality has a way of biting us where we least like it.
Geez, faldage, lighten up. As Connie said elsewhere, "It's a joke, son."
How come folks keep taking a bite out of a brand-new poster today? [3 times so far]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
8430 Members
16 Forums
13688 Topics
209816 Posts
Max Online: 3341 @ 12/09/11 02:15 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Search
Previous Topic
Index