|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
news item: You guys may not like it, but we're at a cultural watershed.
If you cringed at "you guys," brace yourselves. What you're hearing is the vibrant evolution of the American language. Yes, "you guys" is on its way to being proper speech.
Here, linguists say, is what's happening:
In English, "you" is used to address an individual or a crowd. There is no distinct plural form.
The trouble is, we want one. We have "an unconscious need," explains George Goebel, assistant editor of the Dictionary of American Regional English.
"You guys" is a product of this — as are "you all," "youse" (Irish-English), "you lot," "you 'uns" (Scots-Irish), "yins" (chiefly western Pennsylvania) and "y'all." But it is "you guys" that has taken hold.
A 2002-2003 Harvard Survey of North American Dialects, which linguist Bert Vaux authored while teaching at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, found "you guys" the default expression of choice in all U.S. regions but one. (More on that later.)
"Nowadays, very few speakers would consider 'you guys' male only," said Sean McLennan, a doctoral student in linguistics at Indiana University. He is presenting a paper this spring on the gender uses of "guy," "guys" and "you guys" to the Chicago Linguistics Society and finds evidence that even "guy" is edging toward gender neutrality.
"later" it is noted that the only real contender at this time is "y'all", and that in the South. [from Newhouse News Service via the St. Paul Pioneer Press; edited liberally for space..] http://www.newhouse.com/archive/Rios042104.html
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
OK. When I saw this subject line, I thought merely: "wow, this is uncharacteristically exuberant for our tsuwm." The "you guys" bit in itself didn't grate because I... know... where... you... live....
This is going to bring on a lively discussion, I bet. Hope all y'all'll chime in.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I admit that I use "guys" when addressing a whole group of people.
For example, I recently changed cellular phones and sent a note to all of my clients. I had two categories...the uptight and the fun ones.
For the fun ones, I started the e-mail with "Hi guys" even though many are women. Even when the group is all women, I tend to say, hi guys.
It's not new though. I remember everybody using this expression in highschool too.
In French Québec, we'll still identify the gender. We'll say, aye les girls OR aye les boys. Yes, with the words girls and boys said in English.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
I doubt that you guys will became standard English for you plural. As a you guys colloquial user from the get-go, I also hope that the other regionalisms do not die out. I particularly like y'all ... Likewise, pronominally, I've always envied languages that have two different first person plural personal pronouns: one for exclusive and the other for inclusive we.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Likewise, pronominally, I've always envied languages that have two different first person plural personal pronouns: one for exclusive and the other for inclusive we.
Can you give me an example of both jheem. I don't know what you're saying.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
The inclusive and exclusive are with respect to the hearer (2nd person). We (i.e., you and I) are going to town" versus "We (i.e., he and I) are going to town". Some languages (e.g., kita 'we (incl.)' and kami 'we (excl.)' in Hiligaynon) have different pronouns for both these kinds of "we". Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I'm with Nuncle here. I think it will be some time before you guys becomes acceptable in SWE and I prefer y'all in speech, but I've heard a gender neutral guys since the early '70s at least. I can't say that I've heard it in female only contexts, but then there's always the possibility that I've never attually® been in a female only context.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Sloth: "Hey, you guys!"
~ Goonies (1985)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Hope this helps.It does thank you.
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,350
Members9,182
|
Most Online3,341 Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
0 members (),
845
guests, and
1
robot. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|