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Pooh-Bah
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We happened to see a TV programme called "William and Mary" the other evening. Mary is a midwife, and after the thing had finished my best-beloved reached for the dictionary and then finally today I looked it up in the AHD for a bit more info' which I thought I'd share:
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English midwif : probably mid, with (from Old English; see me-2 in Appendix I) + wif, woman (from Old English wf).
WORD HISTORY: The word midwife is the sort of word whose etymology seems perfectly clear until one tries to figure it out. Wife would seem to refer to the woman giving birth, who is usually a wife, but mid ? A knowledge of older senses of words helps us with this puzzle. Wife in its earlier history meant “woman,” as it still did when the compound midwife was formed in Middle English (first recorded around 1300). Mid is probably a preposition, meaning “together with.” Thus a midwife was literally a “with woman” or “a woman who assists other women in childbirth.” Even though obstetrics has been rather resistant to midwifery until fairly recently, the etymology of obstetric is rather similar, going back to the Latin word obstetrx, “a midwife,” from the verb obstre, “to stand in front of,” and the feminine suffix –trx; the obstetrx would thus literally stand in front of the baby.
Ed: Sorry, I guess I should have put this below the line in "Words from Medicine".
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I'm not usually one to argue with the AHD on matters of etymology but, while I've always been with them on the mid part I thought the wife part refered to the one giving birth. That the midwife would be a woman was probably the more common alternative just because a woman would have the personal experience, it was not necessary and a man could be a midwife.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Midwife --> Obstetrics
I wonder if this substitution doesn't reflect a change in the position of the mother during birth from squatting to lying prostrate, as well as the associated change in the gender of her assistant. Midwives are certainly almost always women, while obstetricians have traditionally been men. Here, the personal experience may be a factor since (as I am told), squatting is easier for the mother and lying is easier for her assistant.
Even though obstetrics has been rather resistant to midwifery until fairly recently..
Obstetrics has largely remained resistant to midwifery, but it has been the insurance industry that has lately brought it again near extinction.
..it was not necessary and a man could be a midwife.
I have been charmed by the presence of many midwives coming through my life, in recent years. In Chicago, one group of them reports having had one man in their class. Although licensed along with the women, however, he was unable to get a single client.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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The human race survived millions of years without any
assistance of women during childbirth. But babies are
precious, so when complications arise, special knowledge
is vital. I have the impression that the midwives never
had groups to teach beginners how to handle complications.
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Carpal Tunnel
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assistance of women during childbirth
what are the birthing habits of other creatures? I know of animals that seek to be solitary, but are there others that give birth more commmunally?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear etaoin: you remind me of my daughters' cats. When the
second one was undergoing parturition, she just looked
bewildered. The other cat who had had her kittens a week
before jumped into her box and started taking care of the
umbilical cords.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Animals in which I would expect to see this sort of behavior in the wild:
Wolves
Chimpanzees (possibly also gorillas)
Elephants
Dolphins and whales
Maybe (I say maybe) some of the herding herbivores such as horses and cattle. (but not quite sure how they'd manage it)
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Carpal Tunnel
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you remind me of my daughters' catsI do? must be the whiskers...  started taking careseriously, that's the kind of thing I was wondering about. so perhaps humans have helped each other along as well?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear etaoin: Care of the umbilical cord would be one big
thing the mother might need help with. After all the pulsations have ceased, and often before the placenta has
been passed, it has have a ligature tied around it in two place, tightly enough to prevent hemorrhage, a few inches from the umbilicus, and then cut between the ligatures.
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Although licensed along with the women, however, he was unable to get a single client.
I can sympathize with his plight inselpeter. No-one ever gave a gnat a helping hand*.
In fact:
No-one greets a gnat with a grin
Or applauds his aerial trim
Little wonder, I say
He goes out of his way
To get right under your skin.
*Any hand he ever got, he had to take for himself.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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the human race survived millions of years without any
assistance of women during childbirth.
?
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Carpal Tunnel
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I was 17 the first time I delivered a baby, and delivered four more during my career as a rescue squad person, and never ONCE did the mother do her lying in on her stomach, it was always supine or sitting up.
Prostrate means specifically lying on the stomach. There's a way to remember the difference between prone (which is also prostrate) and supine, which is lying on the back. There's a spine involved in the word and the act of being supine.
TEd
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Carpal Tunnel
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Bill:
Our instructions for taking care of the infant in the ambulance post-delivery were to tie off the umbilicus but not to cut it. Ever. Usually by the time we got to the hospital the mother had delivered the placenta and we just handed the whole package off to the professionals.
TEd
TEd
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From person experience due to having given birth to several children, I can say that women do not in ANY circumstances lay prone during childbirth nor any time after their first few months of pregnancy due to the pain it causes as well as the fact that it will kill the child and has a possibility of killing the mother. We will lay on our backs, sides or sitting up, always in some form of supine manner.
This may be the reason the gentleman who became a midwife was unable to get any patience.
Rev. Alimae
Rev. Alimae
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Oh my! I guess I should have read further before posting my comment.
Rev. Alimae
Rev. Alimae
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Carpal Tunnel
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No worries Alimae, it happens to the best of us  Québec had just had the first batch of graduates in midwifery at the University of Three Rivers. It was a very bid deal since midwifery was legalized. Bill, to elaborate on your point...the woman are taught to handle the complications that can arise during labor but also to be able to judge when a woman should be brought into the hospital. What I like about midwifery is that the women get support during their entire pregnancy...not just some guy showing up to catch the baby on the way out. Insel, just out of curiosity, why would you have a slew of midwives popping through your life all of a sudden?
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Pooh-Bah
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>>prostrate<< Oops!  >>Insel, just out of curiosity, why would you have a slew of midwives popping through your life all of a sudden?<< Perhaps to correct my usage? (Of course, I meant prone--odd post indeed)
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it happens to the best of usAnd even to the least of us. Re: "helping hands" The only helping hand a gnat ever got was a second helping. And no-one offered it to him. He had to take it for himself.
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Carpal Tunnel
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well do let me, offer you a second helping.. but please only one!
In fact, i cordually invite you to a second helping in any thread, in an post, in any topic. But please! can you limit it to a second helping? i just read all your comments about perseverating.. .. oh i just caught on, that what you were doing over there, again and again..
well, i am often slow on the uptake...
no matter, i am a still a hot chick even if it only in flashes!.
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i just read all your comments about perseverating.. .. oh i just caught on, that what you were doing over there, again and again..Yes, I'm trying to overcome my aversion to posting. You're not slow on the uptake, de Troy. And even less so on the 'take down'. Are u sure you don't have some gnatural-born instincts?P.S. That's a compliment [not a condiment]!
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But please! can you limit it to a second helping?BTW the best way to end a thread, and a gnat, is with a "swat!" [As long as it's not a 'near miss'. ]
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Carpal Tunnel
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swat sealed with a thwack? near missthose are the best kind...
formerly known as etaoin...
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Re: 'near miss': "Those are the best kind."Those are the only kind ... worth counting, Etaoin. Re: "I am still a hot chick."We gnats have an old saying: What is feast for the eyes is also food for the stomach. A gnat rarely gets so lucky! A hot-blooded "chick" is a gnat's favorite treat ... next to an Alpha Carpal Tunnel, of course. Frankly, I'm puzzled. Maybe they liked me better when I was just "so dreary".
No-one ever accused a gnat of being "dreary" ... altho we do get weary of being a nuisance all the time.
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we do get weary of being a nuisance from time to time.I think I'll take a hike, Etoain. The blood's running thin around here.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Insel, I think you are on "get no P.M.s" I tried sending you a reply and it keeps bouncing back.
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