Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#124301 03/02/04 04:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
It was brought to my attention recently, that the connotation surrounding the term "Linguistic Word" was not readily understood. Thus, I decided to catenate this post for your learning pleasure.

First I will break it down so that there is better knowledge of each word, then I will put them together for the full understanding.

“Linguistic”

Main Entry: linguistic
Pronunciation: li[ng]-'gwis-tik
Variant(s): also linguistical /-ti-k&l/
Function: adjective
: of or relating to language or linguistics
1. of language: relating to language or languages
2. of linguistics: relating to linguistics

Consulting a thesaurus you would receive these words: language, verbal, philological, dialectal, etymological, phonological, morphological, semantic, grammatical, syntactical.


“Word”

Main Entry: 1word
Pronunciation: 'w&rd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German wort word, Latin verbum, Greek eirein to say, speak, Hittite weriya- to call, name
1 a : something that is said b plural (1) : TALK, DISCOURSE <putting one's feelings into words> (2) : the text of a vocal musical composition c : a brief remark or conversation <would like to have a word with you>
2 a (1) : a speech sound or series of speech sounds that symbolizes and communicates a meaning without being divisible into smaller units capable of independent use (2) : the entire set of linguistic forms produced by combining a single base with various inflectional elements without change in the part of speech elements b (1) : a written or printed character or combination of characters representing a spoken word <the number of words to a line> -- sometimes used with the first letter of a real or pretended taboo word prefixed as an often humorous euphemism <the first man to utter the f word on British TV -- Time> <we were not afraid to use the d word and talk about death -- Erma Bombeck> (2) : any segment of written or printed discourse ordinarily appearing between spaces or between a space and a punctuation mark c : a number of bytes processed as a unit and conveying a quantum of information in communication and computer work
3 : ORDER, COMMAND <don't move till I give the word>
4 :often capitalized a : LOGOS b : GOSPEL 1a c : the expressed or manifested mind and will of God
5 :divine reason: in Christian theology, the divine rational principle as epitomized by Jesus Christ
6. Word or Word of God Christian holy scriptures: in Christianity, the Bible or Scriptures, considered as revealing divine truth
7 a : NEWS, INFORMATION <sent word that he would be late> b : RUMOR
8 : the act of speaking or of making verbal communication
9 : SAYING, PROVERB
10 : PROMISE, DECLARATION <kept her word>
11 : a quarrelsome utterance or conversation -- usually used in plural <they had words and parted>
12 : a verbal signal : PASSWORD
Consulting a thesaurus you would receive these words plus a myriad of other ones associated with it: account, adage, advice, announcement, behest, bidding, countersign, chat, chitchat, colloquy, confab, identification.

From the definitions given, it is readily apparent that there are a few meanings which could be construed from a person’s first glance. It is in my experience though that this is the case with many of the forms for which we place words. The placement within a sentence structure can change the meaning of a word just as the topographical location can change how a word is received by its people.

Normally when I choose to employ the term, I use the definition of “Linguistic” 1. of language: relating to language or languages in conjunction with “Word” 2 b (1): a written or printed character or combination of characters representing a spoken word.

It is my hope that this catechization offers a better understanding of what I mean when I employ the use of the term “Linguistic Word.”



Rev. Alimae


Rev. Alimae
#124302 03/03/04 05:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
If I may say so, the expression seems to be something of a pleonasm. Are there any non-linguistic words?

Bingley


Bingley
#124303 03/03/04 05:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
Could you give an example of a non-linguistic word?



#124304 03/03/04 05:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Yes. As Bingley said (love that word, mate), it's a bit tautological, although it's not actually a tautology. But I repeat myself ...


#124305 03/03/04 05:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
Non-Lingistic words are normally known as Interjections for they are both words AND parts of speech. Parts of speech are simply CLASSIFICATORY labels applied to words; for ex. words are either nouns, adjectives, verbs, prepositions, etc. So by definition, all words necessarily belong to a given part of speech. Interjections are probably the most "non linguistic" words since they usually have very little grammatical structure and very little true "semantic" meaning, the way nouns, adjectives, verbs or adverbs have. That is why linguists have not been very interested in them, since they can only be "listed".
Interjections are traditionally counted as one of the parts of speech, just like nouns and verbs. However, every word of English is considered a member of some part of speech, so that calling an interjection a word is also correct. The simplest way to classify them is by using the process of exclusion; when you have determined that a word is not one of any of the other parts of speech, it must be an interjection. There is of course the problem of drawing the line between an interjection and a _noise_. That is, when someone says "Ouch!" we recognize that as a word and classify it as an interjection; but there are many sounds a person might make in response to sudden pain that aren't recognized as words at all --- for example, there might be a sudden hiss caused by drawing the breath in sharply through closed teeth after someone had accidentally touched a hot stove. That hiss would not be either a word or an interjection. English adult speakers usually make the distinction along the following lines:
When he touched the hot stove he said, "Ouch!"
When he touched the hot stove he went "Sssssssssssssssss!"

More examples of non-linguistic words are:
tsk tsk
hee hee
ummmm
etc.
Usually the classification is semantic, ie, by what meaning they convey usually (eg, surprise, awe, pain, (dis)agreement, etc.)

I hope this answers your question.

Rev. Alimae


Rev. Alimae
#124306 03/03/04 06:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
Ah, but it is not a pleonasm or tautological, which ever way you choose to call it. For there are non-linguistic words that we use each and every day. Normally they are a vocalized sound or an interjection. I have explained this in answer to jheem’s post and I would suggest that you read it.
It is my hope that it will further explain my reasoning for starting this post.

Rev. Alimae


Rev. Alimae
#124307 03/03/04 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
It's a strange definition, but now I'll understand what you're writing about I suppose.

Interjections (and sometimes particles) cause trouble for folks but they don't usually get excluded from language on those grounds. Words like tsk-tsk (actually two avleolar clicks) have meaning and can be used inappropriately. If I utter ha ha when somebody burns himself, I should probably be prepared for a bit of trouble. Same if I say ouch when somebody tells me they've just named their baby "Jane". To me that's semantics and pragmatics.

The whole parts of speech concept is problematic, but the word "word" has a certain meaning vis-a-vis language, and I don't think we should exclude words like hmmm or d'oh from the language just because they don't fit into our linguistic framework. Linguists have traditionally had problems with the left over bits that don't fit into their current theory du jour. A great book that discusses this problem is Jean-Jacques LeCercle's The Violence of Language and to a lesser extent his Philosophy of Nonsense: The Intuitions of Victorian Nonsense Literature. OTOH, some linguists are interested in these left-over bits. Glossolalia is one interesting phenomenon where semantics and words part ways.

One interesting thing about interjections is that new pronunciations have come about because of their spellings, e.g., tsk-tsk being pronounced by some as tisk-tisk.


#124308 03/03/04 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
Very interesting googling on "non-linguistic word" and "non-linguistic words". I hadn't realized that your post consisted of two unattributed quotations from two different linguists: Robert A. Papen, I've never run across before. Suzette Haden Elgin is also a science fiction author. She wrote Native Tongues.

http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-most-recent/msg07678.html

http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-most-recent/msg07670.html

I hadn't notice the scare quotes around Professor Papen's use of the term non-linguistic words in his answer on the Ask-a-Linguist part of the Linguist List. I've never run across the term before, but here are two linguists using it. The other uses seem to refer to nonsense syllables being generated in psychological tests having to do with memorization and recognition of "non-word" words. Anyway, it's not a term that I'd use, as its meaning seems to be a one-off coined by one (or two) linguists.

Another interesting bit is the questioning woman's email address. It's two-letter, top-level domain, country code indicates origin in Micronesia (i.e., fm), but the site is a Polish language free email service. Protection against spam or just plain anonymity. She does sign herself "Rachel Green". Hmm, rather than tsk-tsk.


#124309 03/03/04 03:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Linguists have traditionally had problems with the left over bits that don't fit into their current theory du jour.

Y'all should just take a page from the humantitarian grammarians' theory de sičcle and simply dismiss them as being wrong.



#124310 03/03/04 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
There are two spectres haunting grammar: the Stiff-upper-lipped Guardians of Language and the Deseussical Paronomastic Neologists, neither of whom is right or wrong. I don't have a problem with prescriptive grammarians because they trying to prop up the exquisite linguistic corpse and guard it against the incoming verbal huns of hugger-mugger. Grammatical correctness is a laudable state to be in. What I object to is their ad hoc arguments, sleight of handwaving, and shrill appeals to "logic". Having said that: everybody is wrong, i.e., the linguist trendy wannabes and the aged humument curmudgeons.



Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,338
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 651 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,544
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,917
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5