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#121740 - 01/30/04 06:24 PM Saint Brigid's Day
Father Steve Offline
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The first of February is kept in many places, Ireland especially, as the Feast of Saint Brigid of Kildare. She is known in England as Saint Bride. She is known here in the Colonies as Saint Bridget or even Saint Brigette. One wonders why this may be.


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#121741 - 01/30/04 06:30 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
of troy Offline
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because saint brigid is a 'christian' reincarnation of celtic pagan godess, and her 'saint's day, Feb 1st, marks an important day in the celtic calendar-it is the birth of spring (you wouldn't know it here in NY!)

as for why brigid vs brigit.. its like paddy vs patty. My father, Patrick was often called Pat by those who knew him, but close friends new he was Paddy.

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#121742 - 01/30/04 06:33 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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Not sure, but my money's on the second of February, Candlemass or James Joyce's birthday (OK, James Stephen's, too; time I read Crock of Gold again) take your choice.


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#121743 - 01/30/04 06:39 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
of troy Offline
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time I read Crock of Gold again

i like stephens' poetry better than his books, but Crock of Gold was his best.. his short stories are wonderful.(my copy is a quality paperbound one. (i don't think i own any of his books in hardcover)

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#121744 - 01/30/04 06:45 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
wwh Offline
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Here is URL to Catholic Encyclopedia article about Saint Brigid:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02784b.htm


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#121745 - 01/30/04 06:47 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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(i don't think i own any of his books in hardcover)

I bought a hardcover version for a friend as a birthday present. It was a lovely shade of emerald green with gold letters and a scene embossed on the front. Very nice. I just own the textbook I bought my first year in college. Here's a favorite scene from early on in the book:

"Your stirabout is on the hob," said the Thin Woman. "You can get it for yourself. I would not move the breadth of my nail if you were dying of hunger. I hope there's lumps in it. A Leprecaun from Gort na Cloca Mora was here to-day. They'll give it to you for robbing their pot of gold. You old thief, you! you lob-eared, crock-kneed fat-eye!"

...

"Finality is death. Perfection is finality. Nothing is perfect. There are lumps in it," said the Philosopher.

Stirabout is a great word.

http://www.litrix.com/ckgold/ckgol001.htm



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#121746 - 01/30/04 06:59 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
wwh Offline
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How are things in Glocca Morra?


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#121747 - 01/30/04 08:03 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
AnnaStrophic Offline
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I believe it's known in the Celtic calendar as a cross-quarter day. We USns celebrate it the following day, Candlemas, with groundhogs. Go figger.


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#121748 - 01/30/04 08:15 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
sjmaxq Offline
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We USns celebrate it the following day, Candlemas, with groundhogs.

I've long been meaning to ask, just how does one grind a hog?

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#121749 - 01/31/04 03:01 AM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
Capfka Offline
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I don't know about your US, but in the other one they make terminally boring movies starring Chevy Chase and grind everyone BUT the groundhogs down ...


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#121750 - 01/31/04 08:12 AM Re: Saint Bill's Day
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Chevy Chase

Bill Murray?

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#121751 - 01/31/04 03:20 PM Re: Fuckitall Day
Capfka Offline
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... whoever ...


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#121752 - 01/31/04 05:56 PM Re: cynical old basket Day
maverick Offline
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> terminally boring

Speak for yourself. By a strange synchronicity, I have just been watching that again this evening, and liked it at least as much as the previous times around. p~

but then, I'm Jung-er than you ;)


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#121753 - 01/31/04 07:54 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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A final /d/ devoicing to became a final /t/ is not all that strange. They're both alveolar stops. Now, a /g/ going to a /dZ/ is a little more strange, but still within the bounds of what could be expected in phonological change.


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#121754 - 01/31/04 07:54 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
belMarduk Offline
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The willow tree is still weeping there, Bill
and the laddy with the twinkly eye does come whistling by.




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#121755 - 01/31/04 08:07 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
Father Steve Offline
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They're both alveolar stops.

I knew Albert Veolar. He had a place on Interstate 40 on the Mohave side of Needles, California, where truckers could take on fuel and get a decent cup of coffee. It was called, naturally, the Al Veolar Stop.


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#121756 - 01/31/04 08:15 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
Capfka Offline
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Hello ... TEd's back again ...


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#121757 - 01/31/04 08:17 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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Al Veolar Stop

Varry fine indeed. I myself enjoy a paronomastic cavort from time to time. You should try to work ridge into your calembour.


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#121758 - 01/31/04 08:20 PM Re: cynical old basket Day
Capfka Offline
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You'd be one too if you'd just spent the best part of a day trying to get a wireless network to work in the face of the complete ignoring of its existence by one of the nodes.

Conclusion: Reinstall W2K on said node to get the TCP/IP components working proper, like. Ah, shit!

But Groundhog Day is still one of the most boring movies I've ever had the displeasure of seeing ... p~, indeed.


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#121759 - 01/31/04 08:37 PM Re: cynical old basket Day
belMarduk Offline
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I'm with Cap on this one. Seeing Groundhog Day once, was definitely one-too-many times for me.

Mind you, I have to admit that I'm not a big Bill Murray fan. I would rather avoid anything he's ever done, ever.

oops, did that come out a little harshly


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#121760 - 01/31/04 08:42 PM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
jheem Offline
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The Marmota monax, woodchuck, groundhog (hamburger?), whistle pig, or marmot got me to wondering where the chuck in woodchuck came from. Evidently, from some folk etymologizing on an Algonquian word, (cf. Narraganset ockqutchaun 'woodchuck'). The word in question is not known. (So, say M-W and A-H, at least.) In German, they're called a Murmeltier 'mutter animal' (cf. Mermelvokale 'schwa'. And Murmel is a marble. How about that marmota? Perhaps from OFr marmotter 'to mumble' from murmuro 'mutter, grumble'. Anyway, I enjoyed the movie, but then chacun a son gout.


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#121761 - 01/31/04 08:44 PM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
belMarduk Offline
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Can I go back to the original topic of this thread and ask, why was St Brigid a saint? I didn't see any saintly deeds in her bio.


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#121762 - 01/31/04 10:37 PM Re: sancta brigita
jheem Offline
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I thought of troy mentioned that it was a syncretism with a Celtic goddess.


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#121763 - 01/31/04 10:47 PM Why "Saint"?
Father Steve Offline
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why was St Brigid a saint?

Brigid (or Bridgette or Bride or whoever) was held to be a saint in Ireland long before any canonical, ecclesiastical machinery stamped her as one officially. There are lots of local saints that got their start on the road to stardom in this manner. Among the saintly things she is reputed to have done:

1. She abandoned a life of relative nobility (she was well-born) for a life of cenobitic austerity.
2. She was the founder of a monastery at Kildare; founders of monastic communities are often "sainted" as the merit of their orders is imputed back to them.
3. She is said to have healed a leper woman who asked only for milk.
4. She "converted" a wolf which had been killing livestock and it became the companion dog of a local chieftan.
5. There are other legends.
6. Among her modern miracles are the ability to provide a handsome eligible fellow to an unmarried woman who burns a candle to St Brigid in her window all day and all night on the good saint's day. Not a bad trick, for a nun who never married, eh?




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#121764 - 02/01/04 12:36 PM Re: Why "Saint"?
TEd Remington Offline
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>provide a handsome eligible fellow to an unmarried woman who burns a candle

Sounds like fallacy to me.

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#121765 - 02/01/04 12:53 PM Re: Why "Saint"?
wwh Offline
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Ernest Hemingway "...That is great fellacy; the wisdom of old men. They didn't grow wise, they grow careful."

"My candle burns at both its ends...."
And I did not introduce the change of an "a" to an "e".


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#121766 - 02/01/04 02:53 PM Re: Why "Saint"?
of troy Offline
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"...That is great fellacy; the wisdom of old men.

which brings us back to where Uncle Jazzbeau pointed..

go read a crock of gold... and learn of the wisdom of old men.. and old women..

(it's great that it is on line, its out of print!)

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#121767 - 02/02/04 10:00 AM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
AnnaStrophic Offline
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The Marmota monax, woodchuck, groundhog (hamburger? [ha!]), whistle pig, or marmot ... don't forget the aardvark, nuncle.


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#121768 - 02/02/04 10:32 AM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
jheem Offline
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don't forget the aardvark, nuncle.

Different animal, different languages, same name. The Afrikaans vark is related to German Ferkel 'suckling pig' and Latin porcus. And off the West Coast of Eire, there's some little islands, one of which is Inishshark. It has little to do with sharks, but with MIr orc 'pig', cognate with the others above. I was on Inishbofin 'isle of the white cow' once. A lovely place.


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#121769 - 02/02/04 10:48 AM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
wow Offline
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http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintb03.htm

Another version, less scholarly at
http://www.irelandseye.com/irish/people/saints/brigid.shtm
See last graph re connection with word "brides" which I think may be a bit far-fetched. ??
Then there is the aspect of Brigid as a Celtic Goddess at :
http://druidry.org/obod/deities/brigid.html

And while I am on the subject of Patron Saints ----
I believe St. Catherine is patron saint of spinsters as in the poem I learned in grade school :
"Saint Catherine, Saint Catherine,
O lend me thine aid,
And grant that I may never die an Old Maid."
Blessisngs.
Your High Priestess, wow


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#121770 - 02/02/04 11:39 AM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Different animal, different languages, same name.

Yep, I was just hoping you'd expound. Thanks! Fascinating stuff.


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#121771 - 02/02/04 11:45 AM Re: night of the undead woodchuck
Faldage Offline
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February 1st is Aardwolf Day. It's their attempt at revenge against the aardvark for slipping in ahead of them in the dictionary.


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#121772 - 02/02/04 12:17 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
hibernicus Offline
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Registered: 01/19/04
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Loc: Dublin, Ireland
A final /d/ devoicing to became a final /t/ is not all that strange. They're both alveolar stops. Now, a /g/ going to a /dZ/ is a little more strange, but still within the bounds of what could be expected in phonological change.

I think it's a spelling pronunciation. The Irish name for Saint Bridget is "Bríd", which in older times would have been spelled "Brighid", the "gh" being a voiced velar that exists in very few languages I know*. If you apply English pronunciation rules to that spelling, you get /brIdZId/, the spelling of which can then be nativised to English as "Bridget".

For comparison, take the case of the American name "Caitlin" pronounced "Kate Lynn". "Caitlín" is the Irish spelling of the name "Kathleen", and is pronounced "Kat(h)leen". But at some point a spelling pronunciation arose and what was originally an "error" became a name unto itself.

*I hear this sound when Arabic speakers say "Afghan" or "Afghanistan" - the "f" sounds like a "v" and the "gh" sounds like a voiced "h".


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#121773 - 02/02/04 02:44 PM patron saint of spinsters
Father Steve Offline
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Funny. I heard it differently.

Saint Anne,
Saint Anne,
If you can,
Send a man.

Amen.


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#121774 - 02/02/04 03:11 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
Flatlander Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
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Loc: Cape Cod, MA, US
I've long been meaning to ask, just how does one grind a hog?

I try to not think about HOW, but when you end up with this (http://www.hot-dog.org/Photo13.htm) it is hard to argue with the results!

Also, I do not recommend Googling for "sausage photos" unless you are prepared to learn more about a sexual fetish that I, for one, would rather have never known existed. [shudder]


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#121775 - 02/02/04 07:16 PM Hot Dog!
Father Steve Offline
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According to the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council, of the American Meat Institute, Los Angeles was the biggest hot-dog eating city in America in 2001, with 36,591,904 pounds purchased in supermarkets. New York was second at 33,275,920 pounds. 20,238,994 pounds were sold in the San Antonio/Corpus Christi area (4th in the nation), 16,700,872 pounds were sold in Dallas/Fort Worth (6th in the nation) and only 11,511,176 pounds in Houston (10th in the nation). It is interesting that three of the top ten hot dog sales areas in the country are in Texas.



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#121776 - 02/02/04 07:35 PM Burning candles
consuelo Offline
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Since the thread started, I've had this earworm
http://www.just-lyrics-4all.com/Long_as_I_Can_See_The_Light_Lyrics.html
This is the time of year I suffer most from itchy feet, longing for palm trees and warm ocean breezes. Gonna have to do something about that...


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#121777 - 02/02/04 09:10 PM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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But surely, somebody would pronounce Brighid /brIgId/. The h after the 'g' stopping the sound from affricating.

When I tell folks here about this they miss the irony.

The 'gh' in Afghanistan is supposed to be a voiced velar fricative. The preceding 'f' assimilates by voicing.

And the 'gh' in ghost is there because Caxton put it there.


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#121778 - 02/02/04 10:20 PM Re: Hot Dog!--yeah, but...
of troy Offline
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Los Angeles was the biggest hot-dog eating city in America in 2001, with 36,591,904 pounds purchased in supermarkets. New York was second at 33,275,920 pounds.
yeh, but....NYC has over 3 times the population of LA--
(that offical populations.. NYC's day-time/work day population is almost 2times its offical population--i am going to presume the % of illegal population is about the same) so on a per capita basis, NYC consumption of hotdogs is actually way below LA-- and perhaps on par with houston.
(same is true for crime statistics.. NYC had 33 more murders in 2003 than LA-- but with 3 times the populations, NYC's rate of murder per capita makes it one of the safest cities in US.--(and NYC has about the same number of police officers as LA--and we have UN and all its delegates--but then our cops aren't as busy solving murders.)

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#121779 - 02/03/04 04:44 AM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
hibernicus Offline
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Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 79
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
But surely, somebody would pronounce Brighid /brIgId/. The h after the 'g' stopping the sound from affricating.

Certainly, but in the old spelling, the h would have been represented by a dot (séimhiú) over the "g", which I can't reproduce here, so I wrote it as a "h". It would really have appeared as "Brigid" with a dot over the "g", and in practice, the dot was often left out.

I wonder if there is any connection with the Germanic names "Birgit" and "Birgitta", or if they are from a different origin?


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#121780 - 02/03/04 08:29 AM Re: Saint Brigid's Day
jheem Offline
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but in the old spelling, the h would have been represented by a dot (séimhiú) over the "g", which I can't reproduce here

Ah, yes, I see your point. I believe German Birgit is of the same origin.


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