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#119454 - 01/14/04 12:09 PM Re: verse gear
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
Ha! Perfick!


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#119455 - 01/14/04 04:19 PM Re: verse gear
Capfka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok



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#119456 - 01/21/04 06:51 PM Re: withershins and deasil
hibernicus Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 79
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
In reply to:

In SAMPA, something like: /'deSl/ and /'twA:l/; and in English orthography, something like: deshl and twahl.


You've got "deiseal" exactly right, but O'Siadhail's Conamara Irish would surely render "tuathal" as something like "tu:@l" (the standard form would be "tu:h@l"). At any rate, the stress would fall on the "u", not the "a".

You mentioned "deas" meaning "south"

Note also the words "deas" meaning "nice", and "dea-" meaning "good". This relationship between "right-hand" and rightness, goodness, etc. is common to a whole bunch of IE languages and Finnish.


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#119457 - 01/21/04 06:59 PM Re: withershins and deasil
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
er, can you review what vowel them @'s stand for? Ta.


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#119458 - 01/21/04 09:18 PM Re: withershins and deasil
jheem Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 1474
Loc: California
Thanks for the correction. I never took Irish, though I've been meaning to get around to it one of these days. It's good that we have a Gaelic person here for these kinds of questions.

The '@' is a schwa. The sound at the end of sofa.


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#119459 - 01/22/04 05:19 AM Re: chickenskin and weasel
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
schwa

oh. d@
while we're here, I've always pronounced schwa: schwah. is it actually schw@?

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#119460 - 01/22/04 06:55 AM three ring schwa
wofahulicodoc Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 4921
Loc: Worcester, MA
Another way of hearing the sound of schwah: it's the u in "circus."


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#119461 - 01/22/04 08:54 AM Re: three ring schwa
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
the sound of schwah: it's the u in "circus
What?!? I say circus with a definite "uh" sound for the u, as in humbug. Is this the schwa sound? Or have I been mispronouncing it all my life? (Wouldn't be the only thing.)


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#119462 - 01/22/04 09:11 AM Re: any schwa key mall hie ponce
jheem Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 1474
Loc: California
Great question. I've always pronounced it /Swa:/ or sometimes /Sva:/, but I looked up the word in Klein's Etymological Hebrew Dictionary and here's what he gives: ShV’ (that's shin vav aleph). With points to indicate vowels you get /S@va’/ with the schwa sound coming between the /S/ and the /v/. Etymology: "Borrowed from Syr. /S@veya’/ (= the seven points), lit. 'even' or 'equal' (points), name of the accent mark [here's a glyph of schwa which looks like our colon under the letter in question], which corresponds to the Heb. accent /zakif/. Syr. /sh@veya’/ derives from Syr. /sh@va’/ (was like or equal), which is related to Heb. /shavah/ (was even smooth or like)." Some medieval Hebrew grammarians spelled schwa with a beth instead of a vav, but it would have been pronounced the same, though changing the words numerological value. So both of us were pronouncing "wrong". Especially since there's a glottal stop at the end.


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#119463 - 01/22/04 10:34 AM Re: three ring schwa
wofahulicodoc Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 4921
Loc: Worcester, MA
Okay, maybe it's like the i in circus?

("In whose pronunciation?", of course)


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