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#118822 - 01/06/04 09:35 AM Re: book recommendation!!
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Maahey comprehends the incomprehensible.


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#118823 - 01/06/04 09:59 AM Re: book recommendation!!
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
I first encountered the word in Dawkins book, and in The Selfish Gene he claims to have coined it, however I seem to remember some brouhaha a few years ago when an earlier usage was pointed out.


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#118824 - 01/06/04 10:58 AM Re: book recommendation!!
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
> an earlier usage

you mean it was pre-memed? oi, so now we need a word for a self-referencing meme...


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#118825 - 01/06/04 02:04 PM Re: book recommendation!!
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Thanks for that, Maahey.

I first heard of memes, also, when I read The Selfish Gene, way back in my Uni years - early '80s. I think the book came out in '76, didn't it?

The philosopher Daniel Dennett, in Darwin's Dangerous Idea also favours the concept and makes much use of it. In fact Dennett and Dawkins form something of a mutual admiration society - they are both also founder/supporters of the 'brights' idea (a coined word, meant to become a meme, that is supposed to represent atheists, but remove the atheist connotation, just as 'gay' has replaced 'homosexual' and a number of other terms).

Susan Blackmore's book The meme machine is well worth reading, in my opinion. It can be a bit depressing at times, because if your body is built of genes, and your mind of memes, then where's the space left for whatever it is you think of as 'you'? In the end, though, it's a heartening vision of yourself, as a tinkered together machine, home to all these replicators, that has nevertheless managed to create (even if only as an epiphenomenon), a sense of self, of being at one with the stars, and of creating its own meaning in an otherwise meaningless universe.

I'm glad that memes are finding favour, even if some view the idea with disapprobation.

cheer

the sunshine warrior


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#118826 - 01/06/04 06:16 PM Re: book recommendation!!
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
disapprobation

I think some folks are just getting tired of hearing it used for every little thing in every little blog.
thanks, Maahey for that elucidation. I still need to spend some think time and really get my head around the concept. I can see it, but i can't feel it yet.
perhaps I need to consult my mitochondria...
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

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#118827 - 01/06/04 08:14 PM Re: book recommendation!!
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
some folks are just getting tired of hearing it used for every little thing in every little blog.

It's a question of whether you can blame the word for its misuse at the hands of the unthinking.


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#118828 - 01/06/04 08:23 PM Re: book recommendation!!
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
blame the word for its misuse
one shouldn't, should one?
but is there a "jump the shark" meme?

_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

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#118829 - 01/06/04 08:25 PM Re: book recommendation!!
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
a "jump the shark" meme?

You lost me, cygne.


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#118830 - 01/06/04 08:28 PM Re: book recommendation!!
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Could animals responses to body language be called memes?
For instance when I am out walking, and a cat that has never seen me before exhibits anxiety, if I walk around it,
the anxiety immediately subsides.


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#118831 - 01/06/04 08:34 PM Re: book recommendation!!
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
http://www.jumptheshark.com/
jump the shark is an expression getting lots of ink these days, and I'm curious as to whether the concept could be considered a meme. it's almost like the straw that broke the camel's back, or the one-hundredth monkey... I'm seeing these waves, trends that push forward and then fall back as the shark gets jumped, as the straw gets placed. as I write this, I think the hundredth monkey idea doesn't quite fit. but it's getting me thinking. again, I can't quite feel this. or maybe I can feel it, but can't quite touch it...
I'll shutup now.
oh, and Bill, probably. response to external stimulus could qualify as a meme, no?

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