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#118229 - 12/25/03 03:13 PM Swine and Pearls
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
In reply to:

In a moment I had become aware that we were swine cast before a pearl."



wwh quotes this phrase below the equator.


This is such a lovely rhetorical turn that we may have discussed and I simply was not a good enough student and didn't learn what I should have, but...

What is it called rhetorically when we take a well-known expression and reverse it about? It's very clever, it's commonly used by politicians and comedians alike (and it could be argued that they are one and the same), so I would like to know what they are doing when they do it...


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#118230 - 12/25/03 03:19 PM Re: Swine and Pearls
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
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For openers there's the vice-versa joke. E.G.
He liked to snatch kisses and vice versa.


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#118231 - 12/25/03 03:21 PM Re: Swine and Pearls
Wordwind Offline
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Ha!!!!!!!!!! I think that's a bit different from what I was thinking, wwh, but, lordy, lordy, you've brought out a big laugh from me!

When tsuwm or Faldage returns here, we'll get down to what the rhetorical turn is called...


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#118232 - 12/25/03 08:29 PM Re: Swine and Pearls
maahey Offline
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Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 555
I am not sure of the term, WW, but, parody and satire come imediately to mind. I can give you a delicious example however, of the exact same thing -
'Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory'.

I have seen this turn of phrase commonly used by hacks in cricket reporting. (At least in the Indian pages; that is about the only cricket news I catch up with) Don't know that it is specific to this game; shanks or max might know more.


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#118233 - 12/26/03 02:05 AM Re: Swine and Pearls
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 04/09/00
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It's something of a cliche, particularly beloved of sports writers, certainly not unique to cricket. I believe it was originally used by someone to describe a spectacularly unsuccessful general. I don't know who or which general, though.

Bingley
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Bingley

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#118234 - 12/26/03 02:09 AM Re: Swine and Pearls
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
[quote]I have seen this turn of phrase commonly used by hacks in cricket reporting. (At least in the Indian pages; that is about the only cricket news I catch up with)


Well, you won't be seeing much of it, then. The boys from Bharat have made another another flier, and look like crushing the Aussies in the Boxing Day test. (Please excuse me while I shed a tear for my trans-Tasman neighbours' abject humiliation)

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noho ora mai
http://maxqnzs.com/References.html

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#118235 - 12/26/03 04:44 AM Re: Swine and Pearls
maahey Offline
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Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 555
crushing the Aussies in the Boxing Day test

huh? what! are they repeating Adelaide; am a little behind. Is dear Dravid at it again? Max, those tears are surely croc..come on now, say it's so(rushing off to check...with circley fists and loud joyous whoops...)


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#118236 - 12/26/03 10:16 AM inverted aphorism
grapho Offline
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Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 619
Loc: Carpal Tunnel Country
When tsuwm or Faldage return, we'll get down to what the rhetorical turn is called.

Until then, how about inverted metaphor [or "inverted aphorism"]?

"The Inverted Metaphor:

In the inverted metaphor, the primary and secondary subjects are switched in the sentence frame to create an "adjective-noun" construction. Here's an example:

foxy John

and you may snicker because you realize that, in English as in the idioms of other languages as well, "word order" affects "word meaning"--that "John, the fox" doesn't carry quite the same message as "foxy John"!"






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#118237 - 12/26/03 10:35 AM Re: inverted aphorism
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
I think satire and parody are much too broad here, maahey, for what has been done with swine before pearl in this instance.

The inverted aphorism takes another track completely.

There are hundreds of rhetorical devices that have very specific functions, and I would suspect that there is a very specific turn for taking a commonly known expression, inverting it, to bring new nuance to the meaning of the tried and true old phrase.

Thanks, grapho, for the suggestion. I'm on hold for this one...


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#118238 - 12/26/03 10:41 AM Re: inverted aphorism
grapho Offline
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Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 619
Loc: Carpal Tunnel Country
"on hold"

If a single word is required, metaphrasis might be considered [in its secondary meaning]:

metaphrasis - metaphrase:
....
To manipulate the wording of (a text), especially as a means of subtly altering the sense.

But, I hasten to add, Wordwind, that there is not a single word to render "inverted metaphor" [as far as I know*], so why do we 'hold out' for a single word to render "inverted aphorism" - an obvious relation of the "inverted metaphor"?

*subject to the illumination of higher authority, of course.

Sometimes, less is more, I agree. But, sometimes, less is simply less precise.



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