Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#116328 - 11/20/03 07:11 AM Bath-Bath
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
Last night we were talking about spa towns, as you do. Baden-Baden came into the discussion. We decided that while we knew why New York, New York we didn't know why Baden-Baden. Since the equivalent to New York, New York would be Baden-Baden, Baden-Wurttemberg it doesn't appear to be for the same reason. Can anyone help?


Top
#116329 - 11/20/03 08:14 AM Re: Bath-Bath
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Or, as my old pappy used to say, "Baden-Baden, who's got the Baden?"


Top
#116330 - 11/20/03 08:31 AM Re: Bath-Bath
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
It is like New York,New York.
I searched for History Baden-Baden, and got this:
"......In 1619 the Bohemians deposed their Catholic king from the House of Habsburg, and offered the crown to a Protestant prince, the Prince Elector Friedrich V of the Palatinate. Most of his councillors and several friendly princes advised him against accepting. But Friedrich opted for the Bohemian crown. With Elisabeth, his young English wife, he got into the coach and drove from Heidelberg to Prague. In November 1619, he was crowned there. Almost exactly a year later, in November 1620, he lost the battle of White Mountain by Prague to Tilly, the commander of the Catholic League. He fled clear through Germany to the Netherlands In the state of Baden-Württemberg were united the states of Baden, Württemberg-Baden and Württemberg-Hohenzollern, newly created after the end of the war in 1945. Based on the Referendum of 9 December 1951 ("Southwest State Referendum"), the new federal state of Baden-Württemberg was constituted on 25 April 1952...."


Top
#116331 - 11/20/03 10:49 AM This thread's very interesting...
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Anybody know anything about the "why" of other reduplicative place-names, such as Walla-Walla (Washington), Pago Pago and Bora Bora?


Top
#116332 - 11/20/03 12:04 PM Re: This thread's very interesting...
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
in an unrelated search i found this strangely compelling website about anglo saxon place names in northern britain, a hell of a lot of the names are duplication in meaning, just not in sound

http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/Place Name Meanings A to D.htm

dodyskin
lane street
place place river
valley dip ditch
england


Top
#116333 - 11/20/03 12:23 PM Re: This thread's very interesting...
Wordwind Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
No answers from this quarter.

But there are several nations of which the capital cities possess duplicate names:

Andorra la Vella, Andorra
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
San Marino, San Marino
Monaco, Monaco...


Top
#116334 - 11/20/03 12:44 PM Re: This thread's very interesting...
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
Yeah, WW, and they're like NY,NY. Baden-Baden seemed different as you still needed to put the State after it. But Dr Bill's right I think, back in history it was Baden in Baden state, but then Baden state was combined with others, but the town was left as Baden-Baden, but needed the new state name after it to make a full address.


Top
#116335 - 11/20/03 04:40 PM Re: This thread's very interesting...
Wordwind Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
Oh, dxb, I wasn't really offering anything other than some interesting geographical locations in which there is a duplication of sounds--a tangent at best, but one that seemed worth throwing into this particular pot. Couldn't find any other pot to throw those sounds into.


Top
#116336 - 11/21/03 01:20 AM Re: Bath-Bath
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
There's a bunch of places in Oz with double barrel names.

Perhaps the most famous is the central New South Wales city of Wagga Wagga. Pronounced wog-uh both times.

In the local aboriginal language 'wagga' is the name given to what Europeans call a crow (which, just to muddy the waters further, is actually a raven most times in Oz - it's all to do with the eye colour). Wagga Wagga simply means 'many crows'!! Perhaps this is the basis of double barreled place names elsewhere in the world. It's a simple enough rule.

Another NSW regional town is Goonoo Goonoo. For variation's sake this is pronounced 'gun-uh g-noo' NOT 'goo-noo goo-noo' - by the european populace anyway.

The famous (former) copper mining town of Burra (which is where the movie 'Breaker Morant' was filmed) is aksherly Burra Burra (pron buh-ruh buh-ruh).

With the exception of Goonoo Goonoo (and others I suspect), it is quite acceptable to only use one word in conversation when referring to these places - eg Wagga, Burra etc.

I could go on.....

stales


Top
#116337 - 11/21/03 02:49 AM Re: This thread's very interesting...
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
strangely compelling website about anglo saxon place names in northern britain ~ dodyskin

Yes, see what you mean. I looked up Seaton Carew, playground of the north-east coast; apparently it is on land once owned by the Carou family which sounds more French than British. There must be a story there somwhere.


Top
#116338 - 11/21/03 07:35 AM Re: Bath-Bath
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11605
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Wow--two long-time-absents, returning the same day (more or less)! Welcome back, rav; and, stales: [HUG].


Top
#116339 - 11/22/03 02:37 PM Baths-Baths?
Jenet Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 81
The German for bath or spa is Bad. I thought Baden must be the plural but that appears to be Bäder. So what's Baden? Bathing? Bathing-Bathing?

Ronnie Barker did a sketch in The Two Ronnies about people who had a speech impediment making them say things twice. Of course he has it too. In his appeal he says, "So instead of saying Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden, they say Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden-Baden." :-)

Just the other day I found a fascinating site on dynasties: http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html. It says there the Margravate of Baden was divided in 1190 into Baden-Baden (the elder line) and Baden-Hachberg. It gets rather confusing around 1335, but I think Baden-Baden was partitioned into Baden-Pforzheim and Baden-Eberstein. And it all went downhill from there.

My guess is that Baden the town was the original capital of Baden the territory, and whenever it was divided it was called Baden-<capital>, so B-B was the one that kept B.


Top
#116340 - 11/24/03 09:54 PM Re: Bath-Bath
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
"With the exception of Goonoo Goonoo (and others I suspect), it is quite acceptable to only use one word in conversation when referring to these places - eg Wagga, Burra etc

Just thought of another exception to the rule - the town of Woy Woy in New South Wales. Made famous by the fact that the Goon, Spike Milligan's, mum lived there. Spike was oft seen walking the streets therabouts - or on the train from Sydney. Mate of mine had a lengthy chat with him one day on the train (we were in out teens). Got off at our station saying over and over, "I've been talking to Spike Milligan, I've been talking to Spike Milligan".

Famous or not, the place is never known as 'Woy'.

stales


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Jackie 
Forum Stats
8686 Members
16 Forums
13783 Topics
213018 Posts

Max Online: 3341 @ 12/09/11 02:15 PM
Newest Members
csmoore, Jane Luckner, anjela, MR LOGOPHILE, PlayRiter
8686 Registered Users
Who's Online
0 registered (), 46 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters (30 Days)
wofahulicodoc 79
LukeJavan8 60
endymion6 55
jenny jenny 50
Tromboniator 11
Faldage 5
csmoore 1
Mercur10 1
JTaz 1
Jane Luckner 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30

Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 2014 Wordsmith