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#115754 - 11/13/03 01:26 PM Re: "have got"?
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Well it depends. Do you think of Pandar as a 'have-gotter'?

the sunshine "it's only me" warrior

a/k/a

the sunshine "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" warrior


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#115755 - 11/13/03 07:29 PM Re: "have got"?
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
I agree with Bingly here. "Have got" should imply possession or receipt. People often say, for example, "I've got a cold," but, grammatically speaking, they'd be more correct to say "I have a cold."

In a slightly different context, one might say, for example, "I was with my ailing nephew, and now I've gotten a cold." Note, however that one would use "gotten" here, instead of got.


yabut, yabut,
how come you can say "I am with my nephew."(who is very cute by the way) meaning present tense.
and "I was with..." meaning past tense that ended in the past.
and "I have been with ..." meaning past tense that extends to or stops at the present. OR emphasis ("I have so been with...")
and "I have" present
and "I got" past
but not "I have got" continuing past or emphasis.
Why shouldn't you use "have" to modify the verb for "be in possesion of" in the same way it modifies other verbs.


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#115756 - 11/13/03 08:33 PM Re: "have got"?
Jackie Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
creamed by cod snobbery. ???


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#115757 - 11/13/03 08:39 PM Re: It's hoi polloi time again
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Hi Ravi!

I remember from my youth being told that 'only the lower classes' (they didn't mince words in my youth) use 'have got'.

Funnily enough, I recall being told the same thing by more than one English teacher.

For whatever reason, "have got" sounds common to me. But if it's good enough for William Shakespeare, I suppose I should not complain. Still...

I dusted off my Harper's English Grammar and read the following:

"Got means have or possess or obtain or secure. Use it sparingly if at all after have. Some authorities justify have got for the sake of emphasis, as I have got my man. Do not use got for is or was; I got hit for I was hit is substandard."


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#115758 - 11/13/03 08:59 PM Re: It's hoi polloi time again
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
"He has been being got at."
Parse that, professor


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#115759 - 11/13/03 09:04 PM Re: It's hoi polloi time again
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
"He has been being got at."

Oh God, my eyes!





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#115760 - 11/13/03 09:43 PM Re: It's hoi polloi time again
slithy toves Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 320
Loc: Sarasota, Florida, US
Why do I keep thinking about this old ditty? (As a lyricist Tom Lehrer's really got the stuff.)

I love my friends and they love me
We're just as close as we can be
And just because we really care
Whatever we get, we share!

I got it from Agnes
She got it from Jim
We all agree it must have been
Louise who gave it to him

Now she got it from Harry
Who got it from Marie
And ev'rybody knows that Marie
Got it from me

Giles got it from Daphne
She got it from Joan
Who picked it up in County Cork
A-kissin' the Blarney Stone

Pierre gave it to Shiela
Who must have brought it there
He got it from Francois and Jacques
Aha, lucky Pierre!

Max got it from Edith
Who gets it ev'ry spring
She got it from her Daddy
Who just gives her ev'rything

She then gave it to Daniel
Whose spaniel has it now
Our dentist even got it
And we're still wondering how

But I got it from Agnes
Or maybe it was Sue
Or Millie or Billie or Gillie or Willie
It doesn't matter who

It might have been at the pub
or at the club, or in the loo
And if you will be my friend, then I might ...
(Mind you, I said "might" ...)
Give it to you!




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#115761 - 11/14/03 12:05 AM Re: "have got"?
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
Nobody ever told me that 'have got' was common. We were advised not to use too many gets in succession (avoid: I got up early but by the time I got downstairs my brother had got all the good cereal. I got my own back when we were getting on the bus because I got him all embarrassed in front of this girl he wants to get off with .....).

The get passive is mainly used in speaking and is useful. It's only used for actions and not states so it resolves the ambiguity in "The window was broken". Are we talking about the fact that the window was in several pieces or about something that happened to the unoffending pane of glass? If we say "The window got broken", it must mean the latter. It seems a perfectly natural extension of the difference between "She was drunk" and "She got drunk."

I think passives with get also imply that without actually performing the action, the subject (if animate) did do something to bring the action about. For example, there is a much stronger implication of misbehaviour in "He got arrested" than in "He was arrested".

Bingley
_________________________
Bingley

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#115762 - 11/14/03 07:41 AM Re: "have got"?
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
To continue Bingley's examples, there's also "she got married" vs "she was married." There is a grammatical term for got in this sense (besides the "get passive" that Bingley used), but damned if I can remember it. I believe it's similar to one usage of werden in German and one usage of the reflexive in Portuguese (and, I guess, Spanish).


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#115763 - 11/14/03 07:46 AM Re: "have got"?
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
well, I have no class(it's a snow day), but I have gotten used to using have and got. a lot.


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formerly known as etaoin...

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