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#114753 - 10/30/03 03:18 PM What'a funny?
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
My grandson pointed to a ditch and stone wall arrangement in the grounds of a local ‘stately home’ and said: what’s that? I told him that it was a ha-ha. That meant a lot more explanation was needed! If you don’t know of it, it is a ditch that slopes down from pastureland and has the opposite side formed from a vertical stone wall with its top level with the lawn on the garden side. The depth of the ditch and wall varies depending on what animals you aim to keep out of the garden. The object of the ha-ha was to keep farm animals out of formal gardens without spoiling the view across the grounds.

I am left wondering, is the UK is the only place that used the ha-ha (doesn’t form a good plural!), and if it’s used elsewhere does it have the same name? It’s a pretty simple idea, so I would guess it’s common enough.



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#114754 - 10/30/03 03:51 PM Re: What'a funny?
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear dxb: I've never heard of or seen a ha-ha in US. I think that grazing animals are seldom adjacent to large expensive estates. And an electric fence on property of animal owners would be most common solution.


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#114755 - 10/30/03 04:18 PM Re: What'a funny?
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Haven't heard of a ha-ha here but I've always loved the combination of idea and name. Our closest equivalent would be a cattle gate. It is a ditch about a meter deep crossing a road in place of a standard gate. There are round pipes set in the top perpendicular to the road about 4 inches apart so that cars can rattle across without stopping to open and close a standard gate but the cows are afraid to stepp on it and won't cross and escape.


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#114756 - 10/30/03 09:33 PM Re: What'a funny?
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
This is definitely a YART, but I haven't the time to go Search, just now. But somebody, maverick I think, posted a link to a picture or two. I think it's pretty unique to the UK. I'm posting this because just last night, a good friend asked me at choir practice if I knew what it was! He said it's a good crossword puzzle word.


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#114757 - 10/31/03 09:35 AM just wanna yart the night away
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
http://snurl.com/2sk1 for a brief discussion, the site keeps on dropping out when I try to do searches so no more from me today.


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#114758 - 10/31/03 10:13 AM Re: Crossword puzzles
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
Definitely a crossword puzzle word and not much else in the US&A.


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#114759 - 10/31/03 12:50 PM Re: What'a funny?
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
This is the thread I was thinking of. [finishing her lunch e]
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=15439
Oh, Marty--how I regret missing my last opportunity...


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#114760 - 10/31/03 01:15 PM Misspent youth?
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
When I was younger I read a couple of books, by an Englishman abroad (?), who later moved to England and continued writing these works - scathingly satirical and mind-sharpeningly funny. His name: Tom Sharpe. Perhaps most famous these days for Wilt, Blott on the Landscape and Porterhouse Blue.

His first two books, however, Riotous Assembly and Indecent Exposure were set in South Africa/modern Namibia/modern Zimbabwe, and I recall (I think it was in the first book?) that the Donford Yates-reading 'English' expats there had hahas. At least, there was a moment in the book when someone fell into the haha, which had been dug so deep and wide it was a hazard to life and limb - for everybody.

The peerless Terry PRatchett, of course, has the Patrician sitting on his lawn, casually sending the leader of the Assassin's Guild into a haha designed by Berghold Stuttley (Bloody Stupid) Johnson, that was so large it was no longer a haha, but a hoho. So there are hahas on Discworld.

Any South Africans here to confirm fictional sightings of hahas in the Rainbow Nation?

cheer

the sunshine warrior


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#114761 - 11/02/03 04:42 AM Re: What's funny?
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
Thanks for digging that up, Jackie. I was going to provide a link but, really, that site says everything.


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#114762 - 11/02/03 11:20 AM Re: What's funny?
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
[blowing kiss e]


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#114763 - 11/03/03 01:05 AM cattle gates or...
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
We called these 'cattle guards' when I was growing up in the Ozark Mountains.

Here's a pic for people who have never encountered one:
http://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/forages/rotational/images/fencing/cattle_guard.JPG


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#114764 - 11/03/03 06:10 AM Re: cattle guards
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
We had cattle guards in Flagstaff. Not quite the same thing as a ha-ha.

http://www.calpoly.edu/~gnewell/ehs122/pages/part2/sld018.htm


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#114765 - 11/03/03 07:26 AM Re: cattle guards
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Great image! [Newby question: How did you get your URL to light up as a 'clickable' link?]

I've only seen ha-ha's in English gardening books -- and up close and personal in a couple of English gardens as well. Very clever idea. Love the name.


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#114766 - 11/03/03 07:53 AM Re: cattle guards
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
Newby question:

You got 23 posts to go before you get to be a newbie.

Check the FAQ link up at the top of the page for the answer to that question and many more and enjoy being strange for a while.

And welcome.

BTW, don't know about the Ozarks, but in Arizona sometimes they just painted the cattle guards on the roads.


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#114767 - 11/03/03 07:56 AM Re: cattle gates or...
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
We have those cattle gates/guards that Zed described in the UK too, but whereas they protect an entrance way, the ha-ha usually runs for a considerable length.

Interesting name you have, gift horse. I won't ask about your teeth.




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#114768 - 11/03/03 08:23 AM Re: cattle guards
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks for pointing out the FAQ. I'll check them out. Afraid I'm destined to always be strange regardless of the number of times I post. ;-)

So, painted cattle guards worked to keep the bovine from roaming, huh? I've never heard of that. Just goes to prove that cattle are not exactly intellectual giants.

[moo]


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#114769 - 11/03/03 09:02 AM Re: cattle guards
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
not exactly intellectual giants.

I wondered about that. If nothing else it proves they don't have to stick their feet into them to realize what will happen.



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#114770 - 11/03/03 09:47 AM Stranger than fiction
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
I'm destined to always be strange

Then you'll fit right in!! ...and no, I won't say the obvious about your mouth. Welcome.


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#114771 - 11/03/03 10:32 AM Re: cattle gates or...
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
We have those cattle gates/guards .... in the UK too,
but we call them "cattle grids" - even when they are there to keep sheep out



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#114772 - 11/03/03 11:04 AM Re: cattle gates or...
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
True. Baa-aa-aah.


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#114773 - 11/03/03 11:57 AM Re: cattle gates or...
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
As long as they don't keep (gift) horses out.


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#114774 - 11/03/03 03:23 PM Re: cattle gates or...
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
but they are used to keep (gift) horses in... on areas like the Preseli Hills with ancient pasturage rights, there are free roaming ponies which are only kept from straying onto the main roads by cattle grids on the minor routes bisecting the hills. oh, yeah, and the sheep...

http://westwales.co.uk/graphics/preseli.jpg


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#114775 - 11/03/03 03:37 PM Re: cattle gates or...
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
"Cattle stops" here, and that holds for all (b)ovine prisoners.

_________________________
noho ora mai
http://maxqnzs.com/References.html

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#114776 - 11/03/03 04:40 PM Re: cattle gates or...
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Beautiful country! I wouldn't mind being 'kept in' there...as long as I got plenty of oats and a good rub-down every night.


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#114777 - 11/03/03 04:43 PM Re: cattle gates or...
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
In reply to:

Beautiful country!


Hmm, There be dragons, doncha know? 15 of them were breathing much fire just a couple of days ago.

_________________________
noho ora mai
http://maxqnzs.com/References.html

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#114778 - 11/03/03 04:47 PM Re: plenty of oats
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
c'mare and let me whisper something to you... ;)


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#114779 - 11/03/03 05:05 PM Re: plenty of oats
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
nay.

_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

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#114780 - 11/03/03 06:05 PM Yikes!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Hmm, There be dragons, doncha know?

Do dragons eat horses?


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#114781 - 11/03/03 06:12 PM Re: plenty of oats
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
c'mare and let me whisper something to you... ;)

Are you foaling with me?
(Sorry, couldn't resist).


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#114782 - 11/03/03 06:16 PM Thanks!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Thank you for the kind welcome. I've received the AWAD e-mails for ages. There seems to be a lot of clever and intelligent folks hanging out here. It's a fun place to learn a thing or two, that's for sure.

Thanks again!


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#114783 - 11/03/03 07:31 PM Re: Thanks!
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
You're most welcome GF - bearing gifts or not

Back to original post...

In Québec we have a couple of Ha-Ha places, most notably,
Saint-Louis-du-Ha-Ha.

I can't find anythink that looks like a Ha-Ha you discribe but the place was founded in 1873 so the Ha-ha's could conceivably have been filled/plowed under/built upon....


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#114784 - 11/03/03 07:32 PM Re: cattle grids/grates/gates/
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
I just remembered a friend carefully explaining to me that the cattle grids were actually underpasses for cattle so the cows could cross the road without risking getting hit by cars.
I immediately pictured cowboys ( I grew up in cowboy country) trying to train the cows.


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#114785 - 11/03/03 08:01 PM moo?
JohnHawaii Offline
member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 171
Loc: Hawaii, USA

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#114786 - 11/03/03 08:06 PM Re: cattle grids/grates/gates/
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
cattle grids were actually underpasses for cattle so the cows could cross the road without risking getting hit by cars. Speaking of ha-has...!

Welcome aBoard, gift horse! clever and intelligent folks Something tells me you'll fit right in.


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#114787 - 11/03/03 09:49 PM Now THAT was funny!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
I suppose an annoyed cow is better than an actual mad cow...

http://www.eskimo.com/~nickz/bse/madcow.html




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#114788 - 11/03/03 09:55 PM Re: cattle guards
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
If nothing else it proves they don't have to stick their feet into them to realize what will happen.

Maybe that is a sign of intelligence...cow intelligence at least. Maybe the cow is imagining what could happen if the painted grill is real and she might fall through. Or not. I wonder if there is a Peabody Individual Achievement Test for cows. (?) ;-)


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#114789 - 11/04/03 08:20 AM Re: cattle guards
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
Maybe that is a sign of intelligence...cow intelligence at least.

Prezackly.


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#114790 - 11/04/03 04:14 PM Re: Jeez ...
Capfka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok
The reason that cows don't cross painted cattle stops is that they've seen the "wet paint" sign. Don't give them credit for imagination, for pete's sake!

Speaking of which, I used to repair holes in the fence around our farm with electric fence tape which wasn't connected to any power source. Kept the neighbour's cows out a treat!


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#114791 - 11/05/03 05:33 AM Re: Jeez ...
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
The last time I went to the zoo I noticed that many of the animal enclosures had the same arrangement of a relatively short wall or fence in conjunction with a ditch, which afforded the same benefit of containing the animals and preserving the view.


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#114792 - 11/05/03 08:50 AM Re: Jeez ...
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
short wall or fence in conjunction with a ditch, which afforded the same benefit of containing the animals and preserving the view. Yes, and if any kookaburras are in that zoo, then woe betide the unwary animal who falls in. Gee--in this instance, could a kookaburra be said to be crowing?




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#114793 - 11/05/03 02:52 PM Re: Crowing for Jeez ...
Capfka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok
Jackie, you leave my wife outta this!


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#114794 - 11/07/03 08:39 PM Re: Crowing for Jeez ...
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Fell in a few times, have you?


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