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#113800 - 10/16/03 04:16 PM Expression
davego Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Looking for the source and/or correct quote of "by thy words wilt thou be known".

Any help much appreciated.


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#113801 - 10/16/03 08:47 PM Re: Expression
doc_comfort Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 618
Loc: Australia
I think it's a bible thing - ?Matthew. And I think it was "works" originally. Where is the good Father when you need him?


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#113802 - 10/17/03 04:35 AM Re: Expression
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Or either "shalt", one.

Matt 12:37

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


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#113803 - 10/19/03 01:58 AM Re: Expression
Capfka Offline
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Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok
In the absence of el Padre, I have to agree both with Davego for the base expression and Doc Comfort for the correction. But I don't know where it comes from. I agree that it's parbly the bible, but where in it, Heaven (and, also certainly, el Padre) only knows!


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#113804 - 10/19/03 06:45 AM Re: Expression
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I guess you can't see Fald's reply then, eh?

_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

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#113805 - 10/19/03 08:47 AM Chopped loaves and fishes aside...
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
YCLIU:

http://bartleby.com/108/

That's OK, Faldage. At least eta and I saw and appreciated your post.


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#113806 - 10/19/03 03:50 PM Re: How specific do I have to be, then?
Capfka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok
Yes, I did see Faldo's reply, and I disagree with it. That's (funnily enough) why I was specific about who I was agreeing with!

And the KJV doesn't have the expression in any form, so maybe it wasn't the bible after all.

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#113807 - 10/19/03 04:23 PM Is there more than one King James?
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Loc: lower upstate New York
My KJV does! (???) Right there at Matt 12:37.


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#113808 - 10/19/03 06:33 PM Re: Folk expression: 'kiss my arse'
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
It's definitely in my Konig Iago bible all white:

By thine words shalt thou be revealed as a hideous troll!


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#113809 - 10/20/03 03:38 PM Re: Is there more than one King James?
Capfka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 1624
Loc: Utter Placebo, Planet Reebok
Matt 12:37

Your KJV doesn't. It's not the same term that Davego was talking about.


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#113810 - 10/20/03 03:47 PM Re: Is there more than one King James?
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
It's not the same term that Davego was talking about.


"by thy words wilt thou be known".

and/or correct quote

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Yeah, it's quite a stretch.


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#113811 - 10/20/03 05:11 PM Re: Is there more than one King James?
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
Your search - "by thy words wilt thou be known" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.


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#113812 - 10/20/03 05:35 PM Re: Is there more than one King James?
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
so i tried a few permutations
by thine words shall thou be known
by thine words wilt thou be known
by thine deeds shalt thou be known

By your deeds you will be known
Time will tell truth will show
As we exhale every breath
We all got closer to our death

i got a couple of other non-maiden-related hits in this sort of vein:
...I guess the other answer I would give you is that despite whether or not he has specifically said his position on South Africa or choice or other issues that I was always raised by the adage that by your deeds you will be known. And I think we have to look at not just the words and speeches but his conduct. ...

by their own words shall they be known gave me a couple thousand more hits, mainly stuff like this:
http://weblog.burningbird.net/fires/000916.htm and some really random sightings like:
..."By their own words shall they be known"- a recent discussion among obstetricians helps birthing women understand their view of cesarean, VBAC and birth in general. ...

so, this does seem to be a fairly well known form, can't be fagged sourcing it though. take your pick as to the original, i'm going to bed, my beloved has the superbug and i'm back on super hygiene alert.





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#113813 - 10/21/03 12:19 AM Re: Is there more than one King James?
doc_comfort Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 618
Loc: Australia
Matthew 7:20


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#113814 - 10/21/03 05:31 AM Re: words and fruits
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Ha! Yet another one. Thanks, doc. I wonder if this expression has gotten all mushed together over the years, sort of like "gild the lily," but even more so (as indicated by dody's research)? Is there a term for this phenomenon?


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#113815 - 10/21/03 07:42 AM Re: Is there more than one King James?
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

still a bit of a stretch


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#113816 - 10/21/03 07:51 AM Re: Is there more than one King James?
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
bit of a stretch

Yeah, well the lily never did get gilded, either.


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#113817 - 10/21/03 08:33 AM wasteful and ridiculous excess
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
I think there is a tendency to pick on a particular form, and then change the words around to suit the occasion.

by your/my/his/their own words/thoughts/deeds shall/will/should/can you/I/they/she be known

a sort of somber relative to punnery

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#113818 - 10/22/03 04:55 AM Re: Expression
davego Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thank you everyone for your wonderful insights.




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