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#113499 - 10/12/03 10:12 PM Language variations
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
A friend had asked about terms of formal address, and in seeking info. on that, I came across this site.
http://www.hku.hk/english/course/sociolectures.htm With a bit of fiddling with the address, I found to my surprise that it comes from the University of Hong Kong. (Which went a long way toward explaining why some of the comparisons jump from American to British to Hong Kong English. Only.) Anyway, I felt a jab of familiarity reading
British and General American:

I might be able to go.

Maybe I should go.

Appalachian:

I might could go. / I might can go.

I might should go. / I might ought to go.


There are a bunch of other comparisons, including some Navy jargon that might strike a chord with you, Dr. Bill, John Hawaii, and wow.



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#113500 - 10/13/03 08:32 AM Re: Language variations
slithy toves Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 320
Loc: Sarasota, Florida, US
Interesting site, Jackie. I took a few linguistics courses way back when, and this site covers much the same ground that I recall from the old days. I still have some reservations about assertions such as:

From a linguistic point of view, there is no basis for saying that one dialect is more correct than another, just as there is no basis for saying that one language is more correct than another. All dialects are equally systematic, but they just have somewhat different systems.

I suppose the opening phrase is meant to soften what follows. I'm something of a stick-in-the-mud about all this acceptance of what I see as substandard usage. It may be that prescriptive is out and descriptive is in, but--as I used to tell my students--make sure you learn the "correct" forms just in case you ever decide to apply for a job.







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#113501 - 10/13/03 08:47 AM Re: Language variations
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
Dingo's breakfast: a yawn, a leak and a good look round (i.e. no breakfast)

I found this Australian slang particularly funny because the definition itself has a nice, alliterative rhythm to it.


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#113502 - 10/13/03 08:53 AM Re: Language variations
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
something of a stick-in-the-mud about all this acceptance of what I see as substandard usage.

Someone at TVR once made the analogy of language use to shoes worn at a job interview. If you're interviewing for a job as CEO of Continental Draugsvold you're not going to score any points in a pair of oil-stained work boots. On the other hand, if you're looking for a job as rigger on an off-shore oil rig you're not likely to get much of a chance if you show up in a pair of $500 Guccis.


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#113503 - 10/13/03 09:10 AM Re: Language variations
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
British English

?

[rant]Fries and chips are not interchangeable words, fries are a completely different thing. Chips are thick as your thumb, deep fried in ( preferably) dripping and served with peas and gravy. Fries are those things you get in M$%££#*$!s.[/rant]



sorry


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#113504 - 10/13/03 08:40 PM Re: Language variations
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Ah, yes; I am still astounded by the thought of a "vision" I had last June: a man walking along, casually eating a chip butty. [barf]


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#113505 - 10/14/03 12:57 AM Re: Language variations
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
And what caused such a degree of astonishment as to lead to barfing? The fact that he was walking and eating at the same time or the fact that he was doing so casually? Is walking and eating at the same time only undertaken with great seriousness in the US, as befits the difficulty of a task which only the select few can manage?

Bingley
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#113506 - 10/14/03 04:03 AM Walking and eating
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Outside of New York City, nobody walks. Inside of New York City, everybody walks and eats.

What's a chip butty?


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#113507 - 10/14/03 04:41 AM Re: Walking and eating
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
Chips placed between two slices of bread to make a sandwich. One of the North of England's contributions to world cuisine.

Bingley
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#113508 - 10/14/03 05:08 AM Re: Language variations
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
I was somewhat surprised to find among the examples:

past perfect 'already'

British:

They've already eaten.

Surely this is the present perfect not the past perfect.

Under complementation he says:

British:

He appeared tired

He appeared a complete idiot.

General American:

He appeared tired

He appeared to be a complete idiot.


Perhaps I'm going to appear a complete idiot here, but to me "He appeared a complete idiot" and "He appeared to be a complete idiot" mean different things.

Bingley
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#113509 - 10/14/03 06:15 AM Re: Language variations
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
"He appeared a complete idiot" and "He appeared to be a complete idiot" mean different things.

Aside from the interpretation that the former describes a routine in a magic act…


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#113510 - 10/14/03 09:39 AM Re: Walking and eating
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
What's a chip butty? Picture steak fries--3 of them--on a bun. The fact that anyone would think to do something like that, let alone eat it, is what astounded me.


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#113511 - 10/14/03 11:37 AM Re: Walking and eating
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
in belgium, and parts of france, they would slap a nice big dollup of MAYONAISE on top of those fries... mmm, makes chili and cheeze dumped into a bag of corn chips's sound like health food!

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#113512 - 10/14/03 12:13 PM Re: Walking and eating
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Along with, of course, the famous deep fried Mars Bar.

Make mine a bacon butty - the only quick breakfast worth having (if you cannot afford the full English, of course)!


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#113513 - 10/14/03 12:16 PM Re: Butties
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Well, I agree with Jackie that the idea isn't very appetizing, but having never tried one, I can't say. Where does the term butty originate? Does it indicate the bread is buttered?


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#113514 - 10/14/03 12:19 PM Re: Butties
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Where does the term butty originate?

Perhaps it refers to the ultimate destination of the food so named.


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#113515 - 10/14/03 12:32 PM Re: Butties
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
Haven't a clue, mate, either way. These Brit regional phrases, eh? Poor ol' Caxton and his eyren.


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#113516 - 10/14/03 03:08 PM Re: Butties
Zed Offline
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Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
I think a butty is a big flat bun, kind of like a large hamburger bun. A chip butty is part of the food system of eating something from all four starch groups every day.


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#113517 - 10/14/03 03:49 PM Re: Butties
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Ah, of course, Zed. So naturally the best thing to wash it down with, in this system, would be a beer.


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#113518 - 10/14/03 07:02 PM Re: Butties
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
and always make sure there is someone near to help you when your heart attack hits. it's called the "butty system"...

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#113519 - 10/14/03 09:10 PM Re: Walking and eating
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I thought this had been explained before, though I'd forgotten the exact def. myself:
The buttie bit is easy - it just relates to the bread and butter, although where I came from a buttie would always be a single piece of bread (white sliced!) folded with a filling inside, rather than a sandwich which tends to have two slices piled on top of each other and cut. It is especially important in a chip buttie, otherwise the chips and melted butter ooze out. A large bread roll or barm cake (Manchester) is even better, although for me a chip buttie is now a luxury food reserved for very rare moments of comfort deficit.

http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=52646


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#113520 - 10/15/03 05:44 AM chips and bread
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
a chip butty is what you make at home with your bread and butter ( all meals come with bread and butter, i love bread and butter) folded around the last few chips, usually with gravy wipings. a chip barm is what you get from the chippy, a big, flattish, floury, oven bottom muffin. they cost about 55p, or 85p if you get it in a cone, a cone of paper with the barmcake in, sliced and buttered, with a huge portion of chips piled on top, more than can possibly fit in the barm so you have to eat the hot chips with your fingers until you can fit the rest in the barm which is now all chip-greasy chip-tangy on the inside and crisp on the outside. or there's your chip naan, which is basically a naan bread, with cheddar and coriander (usually, you can have garlic or plain) baked in and then the chips are rolled up in the naan. or you bake the chips inside the actual naan, but there's only a few places that can do that properly, otherwise you end up with a sort of spicy chip pizza, which is minging. it's a classic whichever way you slice it.

god i love chips


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#113521 - 10/15/03 09:14 AM Re: chips and bread
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
generally, food threads/posts get a cold receptions, but dody, anytime you want to write about chips, or any other food you like, post it somewhere on this board.. I loved ready your mini essay on chips and bread!

(Re: bread and dripping- are they still considered a culinary treat in UK? or by you?-- my mother (from ireland) thought anything in the world tasted better when sandwiched between buttered bread- she was right about bananas-- add some black pepper, and letuce, and bananas make a wonderful sandwich(best on whole wheat bread))

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