#112113 - 09/15/03 08:16 AM
Try radenig tihs
|
addict
Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 460
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
|
[a letter in today's Melbourne Age]
I thugoht yuor rdarees mhgit be iternseted in tihs eiaml taht I rieveced:
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteers are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe. Ceehiro!
[I couldn't bring myself to running the above through Aenigma!]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112116 - 09/15/03 09:18 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
addict
Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
|
tahts azminag, how auobt dsyelixc polepe, deos the smae rlue alppy? oftroy (or aynone), can you hlep?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112117 - 09/15/03 09:44 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
veteran
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1523
Loc: Virginia, USA
|
I'm not sure this is news. We've known for years that most languages, and English in particular, has a lot of redundancy - not just in the word itself, but in the context of the words. English is particularly well-adapted for building crossword puzzles - or maybe those particular puzzles are well-adapted for English. (Well, I read that somewhere. I don't *know* that it's true. I don't recall the reference, but it was in a book discussing cryptography and information theory.)
There's a difference between reading "PxxxE" and "PALCE" and "PCALE." In the first place there are numerous choices ("POISE," "PRISE," "PRIME" to list a few), but in the second it seems clear that either A & L have been transposed or an A has been dropped beteween L and C (PLACE or PALACE). PCALE could be SCALE or PLACE, and I'd probably opt to believe the first letter was a typo if there were no context.
To me this is exactly analogous to other tricks the brain plays on us - where the brain fills in the gaps because that's what brains do - fill in the gaps, put things in order, add structure to apparent chaos.
k
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112118 - 09/15/03 09:56 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
|
Well, it was news to me, oh Fiendish one. And thanks for filling in some gaps -- it's all making sense now. Meanwhile, I just discovered this is being discussed on Straight Dope: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210913
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112123 - 09/15/03 12:35 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
|
I just got that in an email too, and now i'm not going to worry so much about my typing... though I did pretty well that time... as an H&P Typer, I often re-arrange letters in words. seriously, it's a pretty fascinating little study... 
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112124 - 09/15/03 01:04 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11579
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
|
To me this is exactly analogous to other tricks the brain plays on us - where the brain fills in the gaps because that's what brains do - fill in the gaps, put things in order, add structure to apparent chaos. Absolutely; most of us seem to be hard-wired to try to find a pattern, and preferably a familiar one. I had no trouble reading the letter (Hello, sweet paulb, and thanks!); but, as the link to S.D.* shows, the longer the word, the harder it gets. (Unless it's clear from the context what the word ought to be, I start having to pause at words of about 8 letters.) Out of context could be hard indeed. I have found this true in many kinds of word puzzles, where you have to pick a word out of thin air, and try all kinds of permutations to find out whether you got the right one or not. Keith, your statement about crosswords intrigues me. Does anyone have any experience with crossword puzzles in other languages? *It always hurts my feelings to find out that a topic here has already been discussed elsewhere. I believe this group to be the best and the brightest (not that I'm prejudiced or anything!), and I also want us to be first!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112127 - 09/15/03 03:29 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
|
I had no trouble reading the letter but, as the link to S.D.* shows, the longer the word, the harder it gets. (Unless it's clear from the context what the word ought to be, I start having to pause at words of about 8 letters.) Out of context could be hard indeed.
bshlulit! just kidding :)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112129 - 09/15/03 03:54 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
enthusiast
Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 261
Loc: London/Prague
|
longer [and] Out of context could be hard indeed
Ltes try:
aoprmpmhohripoc
hlutanlicae
eahepnlt
cmsiounmt
gaunalldr
I can't really tell as I've written them myself but I reckon you're right. Certainly number four looks pretty impossible.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112131 - 09/15/03 04:04 PM
Re: Ægmina syas
|
enthusiast
Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 261
Loc: London/Prague
|
What's this obsession with Lubbock?!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112132 - 09/15/03 10:08 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
In reply to:
Does anyone have any experience with crossword puzzles in other languages?
Indonesian crosswords depend on synonyms and general knowledge, with the occasional foreign word (usually English).
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112133 - 09/16/03 07:59 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
addict
Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 460
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
|
<Were there any links provided for some background on this phenomenon?>
No, AnnaStrophic, just the letter to the editor, and today's paper had no followup.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112136 - 09/16/03 08:44 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
member
Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 171
Loc: Hawaii, USA
|
aoprmpmhohripoc
hlutanlicae
eahepnlt
cmsiounmt
gaunalldr
These all unscramble except the first one. Was that a test?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112137 - 09/16/03 10:29 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112141 - 09/17/03 01:56 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
enthusiast
Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 261
Loc: London/Prague
|
>Was that a test?
Oh, no I was just wondering whether longer, out of context words unscrambled - I find the fourth one harder - I keep reading cosmonaut.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112142 - 09/17/03 05:43 PM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
|
I had no trouble at all reading the letter either - but I do agree that if the words were longer it would be a tad more difficult without context.
Just like you can often figure out what a word means by the sentence/paragraph around it, you can usually figure out a mixed up word the same way.
This brings up related thing though...
When it's really really late, and I'm trying to finish up a book that seems to drag out the end I have been know to skip over entire words, sometimes sentences, and still know what's going on.
Do you think this is the brain working in the same way as understanding jumbled words?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112143 - 09/18/03 11:44 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
journeyman
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 87
Loc: Ohio
|
bel - I think this is somewhat like speed-reading. I took a speed-reading course in high school, and one of the main objects was to look at phrases, sentences, and longer words. We were supposed to skip the little words and not really focus on individual words, as much as possible. The comprenhension results were pretty amazing, as I recall, but is was not recommended to use speed-reading for technical or math-related subjects.
_________________________
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy? -Ursula K. Le Guin, author (1929- )
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112145 - 09/24/03 09:23 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: UK
|
aoprmpmhohripoc
hlutanlicae
eahepnlt
cmsiounmt
gaunalldr
These all unscramble except the first one. Was that a test?
Yeah, that's right! I read this as anthropomorphic until JH made his post. Now I can get nothing from it except a sense of deep confusion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112146 - 09/24/03 11:00 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
enthusiast
Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 261
Loc: London/Prague
|
I find it's okay as long as you don't look at them too hard... but I completely forgot the last one and I kept seeing gondola.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112147 - 10/16/03 12:32 PM
hey, it might even be true
|
addict
Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
|
just unearthed this http://www.bisso.com/ujg_archives/000224.html now all we have to do is write to the uni. get a copy of his thesis and check it out! i'm doing it tomorrow.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112148 - 10/16/03 07:17 PM
Re: hey, it might even be true
|
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
|
And me wondering for the longest time about the story behind the name wolfadocaholic. (?werewolf that keeps eating doctors??)
I don't know if it is a related skill but I got to be good at interpreting conversations with stroke survivors with word finding deficits. They will sometimes substitute a functionally related word (the machine doesn't work" for "my knee won't hold me") or a word with no linguistic relationship but a similar mouth feel or cadence ( my earring for good morning,) I found if I listened "loosely" I could guesstimate better than average.
The faster I read the example above and the less I looked at individual words the easier it was.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112149 - 10/17/03 01:38 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
|
A colleague forwarded the Indonesian version to me last week. I could read it almost as easily as 'proper' Indonesian.
Ini sagnat menraik
====================
menuurt sbeauh penilitean di Cmabrigde Uinervtisy,
tdaik mejnadi maslaah bgaimanaa urtaun hruuf-huurf di dlaam subaeh
kaat, ynag palngi pnteing adlaah leatk hruuf partema dan terkhair itu bnaer.
Siasnya dpaat brantaaken saam skelai dan kmau maish dpaat mebmacanya
tnpaa msaalah.
Hal ini kerana oatk masunia tdaik mambeca seitap huurf msaing-msaing,
tatepi kaat kesuleruhan.
Manejkubakn naggk?
Bingley
_________________________
Bingley
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#112150 - 10/17/03 04:29 AM
Re: Try radenig tihs
|
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13655
|
Siasnya dpaat brantaaken saam skelai dan kmau maish dpaat mebmacanya tnpaa msaalah.That's absolutely amazing. I can read it as easily as I could the original. Edit:Ltae beranikg nwes from Cmabrigde Uinervtisy: http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/personal/matt.davis/Cmabrigde/
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
8426 Members
16 Forums
13690 Topics
209794 Posts
Max Online: 3341 @ 12/09/11 02:15 PM
|
|
|
0 registered (),
42
Guests and
1
Spider online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Search
Previous Topic
Index