|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Let's add some more Latin phrases. For instance:
"Res ipsa loquitur" = the thing speaks for itself.
E.g. "the smoking gun" that identifies the shooter.
Or Thoreau's "trout in the milk" that proves the farmer added brook water to his milk to cheat his customers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
"trout in the milk"
quomodo latine illud?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 725
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 725 |
My favorite has always been:
Cogito ergo spud.
I think, therefore I yam.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
In the law, res ipsa loquitur is a negligence doctrine. It imposes liability in the absence of the usual elements of breach and causation when the circumstances pose a situation in which negligence must have occurred. Under the doctrine of res ipsa loquitur, an inference of negligence can arise when the plaintiff's injury (1) ordinarily would not have occurred in the absence of negligence, (2) was caused by an agency or instrumentality within the exclusive control of the defendant, and (3) was not due to any voluntary action or contribution of the plaintiff. An example of a res ipsa situation is when the wrong limb is amputated during surgery. In such a case, with the patient under general anesthesia, the removal of the wrong limb would not occur in the absence of negligence, the instrumentality of the harm was within the exclusive control of the defendant physician, and the plaintiff did not contribute to the mistake.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Ok--then, please, how does
"Res ipsa loquitur" = the thing speaks for itself. differ from
QED--"quod erat demonstrandum (which was to be demonstrated)"? I have often read/heard QED after some factual statement, but seemingly in ways where res ipsa loquitur would be more appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I would say that res ipsa loquitur, irrespective of any special legal significance, means that the thing requires no proof. QED says that the proof, which *is requred, has just been accomplished.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Thanks, Faldage. But hoo, boy, I could see me having problems with that, were I for some reason to start using either term. "Whaddya mean, I didn't prove it? I just SAID what happened, didn't I??"
Would you mind telling me whether I got these right or not?
...Augh, never mind, I can't think of anything that *I* couldn't see as having both, conceivably, justified. Ex.:
It's raining.
My eyes are brown.
It's a long way from here to England.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Jackie: mostly in jest, your three sentences add up to
"non sequitur" = " it does not follow "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Oh!  That's what I get for assuming everybody would read my mind, Dr. Bill--thanks for pointing that out. I really didn't mean for that to be as dumb a post as it actually reads! I meant that I could imagine saying both res ipsa loquitur and QED after each of my examples.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
At school, after proving a theorem by means of mathematical or scientific demonstration it was the done thing to close with the letters QED (schoolboy humour gave it as meaning Quite Easily Demonstrated  ). This indicated that in your view, not always the master's  , you had presented sufficient logical argument to prove the case. Res ipsa loquitur, leaving aside the legal definition, seems closest to the French “ça va sans dire” or “that goes without saying”. But taking Jackie's three statements: It's raining. My eyes are brown. It's a long way from here to England. The first two are facts, while the third is debatable, England is quite close compared to Mars [duck and run-e].
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I learned "res ipsa loquitur" in course on legal medicine.
A post op patient has persistent abdominal pain. A flat plate (x-ray) of the abdomen shows a surgical instrument in his abdomen. Res ipsa loquitur - he is the victim of medical
malpractice.The surgeon has no defense.
Of course I also heard Perry Mason say it a couple times.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The first time I heard res ipsa loquitur was on NYPD Blue when the lovely assistant DA and future wife of the gruntly cop was excoriating said gruntly cop for his miserable performance on the witness stand. She said, "I'd say res ipsa loquitur, if I thought you knew what it meant." His barely printable response was, "Ipsa this, you prissy b***h."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: But she married him, you say, which says a
lot about her.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
It was a classic examplle of a cute meet, was it not?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I was inspired to create a 'Famous First Words' category by that exchange. Unfortunately, I don't have any other entries.
The cop, Sipowitz, had many problems. Together they worked most of them out, as I remember.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Res ipsa loquitur - he is the victim of medical malpractice.The surgeon has no defense.
As Sparteye, our lawyer, pointed out! OK, now fess up, Dr Bill... you too are now among the liver-choppers [running screaming for cover while hoping your sense of humor is intact]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear AS: I challenge you to demonstrate that I hacked anybody's hepar.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear AS: You are quick to condemn, slow to retract.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Saprteye: In the law, res ipsa loquitur is a negligence doctrine. It imposes liability in the absence of the usual elements of breach and causation when the circumstances pose a situation in which negligence must have occurred. Under the doctrine of res ipsa loquitur, an inference of negligence can arise when the plaintiff's injury (1) ordinarily would not have occurred in the absence of negligence, (2) was caused by an agency or instrumentality within the exclusive control of the defendant, and (3) was not due to any voluntary action or contribution of the plaintiff. An example of a res ipsa situation is when the wrong limb is amputated during surgery. In such a case, with the patient under general anesthesia, the removal of the wrong limb would not occur in the absence of negligence, the instrumentality of the harm was within the exclusive control of the defendant physician, and the plaintiff did not contribute to the mistake.
Dr Bill: I learned "res ipsa loquitur" in course on legal medicine.
A post op patient has persistent abdominal pain. A flat plate (x-ray) of the abdomen shows a surgical instrument in his abdomen. Res ipsa loquitur - he is the victim of medical
malpractice.The surgeon has no defense.
Of course I also heard Perry Mason say it a couple times.
Res ipsa loquitur (or is that QED?)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: I took legal medicine before Sparteye was
born, I believe. I purposely omitted giving the legal
part of it, thinking a less limited application would be
more appropriate. I took nothing from Sparteye, I merely
added an additional example. And I also think the use of
acronyms, special symbols, and jargon known only to the
first members STINKS. If this be treason, make the most of
it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
You are quick to condemn, slow to retract.
Shouldn't have counted on your sense of humor, I guess.
Dr Bill, I don't have the luxury to stay online at AWADtalk all day. I shall now try to reason with you (again, and for the last time this season, I hope): chopping liver and mantling are expressions that mean one has evidently ignored a previous post. Sparteye used the amputation example, you used the tool left in the abdomen. Fine. But what has come to be the norm at this, and other message boards I'm aware of, is you acknowledge the previous poster's comment first. Which you did later, thus demantling. Or something.
I don't really expect you to understand but at least others who read this will.
Have you had another look at any of those marvelous Yahoo language sites I sent you?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear AS: I still don't see anything humorous about your
explicit implication that I had somehow wronged Sparteye.
Faldages fumbles are nugatory. Speak for yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I just did. And that's all I have to say.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
But you said nothing pertinent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
hey! guess what guys? I'm a Carpal now! isn't that neat?  <hugs all around>
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear etaoin: But Daddy, the little girl said:
"Carpal tunnels hurt!"
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,364
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
594
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
