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From a review of an Office suite:
"One small but immense improvement from version 1.0 is . . ."
Huh?
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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IMMENSE
from Encarta
15th century. Via French from Latin immensus , literally “not measured,” from mensus , the past participle of metiri
From M-W
transcending ordinary means of measurement
From Webster 1827
Unlimited; unbounded; infinite
One could argue from these examples that small and immense are not mutually exclusive.
If one so wished, that is.
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Carpal Tunnel
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How about a minor change having a large effect:
Woman, without her man, is nothing.
Friendly amended
Move one comma:
Woman, without her, man is nothing.
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>How about a minor change having a large effect:
I've little doubt that the above is what they were shooting for. I still don't like "small but immense", though, it's clumsy and unclear, as I read it.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Woman, without her man, is nothing.
Woman, without her man is nothing.
Should it not be a move of the comma, rather thanit's ommision?
e.g.
Woman, without her, man is nothing.
EDIT: (This doesn't negate your argument, but.)
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>Should it not be a move of the comma, rather than it's omission?
Excellent! I had thought as much when I read the post, but being basically inverterbrate, didn't say so.
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Carpal Tunnel
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a move of the comma
I had thought so, too. I rejected it because I've only had one cup of coffee so far. I'll take it as a friendly amendment.
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Pooh-Bah
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You're right, of course - one small cup of coffee can make an immense difference.
(I like Java - Java, it likes me.)
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a minor change having a large effect
This kind of usage--where the actual words refer to different things though they are presented together--is not unheard of. There's a word I'm not remembering for a usage such as, "He put on his jacket and his courage". Is 'small but immense' the same type of usage? (I'm thinking not, but I haven't been awake very long.)
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old hand
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old hand
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As I tried to convey in another thread, the pace (and therefore also the size) of change are immensely subjective 
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In the end, what y'all are railing against is the use of advertising hype.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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In contradistinction to the members of the anti-enclosure movement of the late C18/early C19, who adverted against the railings?
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I haven't yet addressed myself to the appropriate penalties for "advertising hype". Give me a minute.
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No duplications, Father Steve!  Mercy, I'm so glad you're back here!
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"Hype", when used to modify the word "advertising" is a synonym for "lying" or "untruth." It is unidirectional untruth, in that it always overstates, exaggerates, enhances and/or inflates the positive qualities of the goods or services being "hyped." It is also a form of lying which is intended by the liar to be relied upon by another to the benefit of the prevaricator. The legal definition of “fraud” is something like: “An intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of obtaining some valuable thing or promise from another.” The hyper is thus guilty of the sin (if not the crime) of fraud.
For this sin, I have imagined the following appropriate punishments: That the malefactor’s truck run out of gas while the gauge still shows a quarter tank, his spouse run off with his former best friend, his rifle jam when he has the biggest buck he’s ever seen in his sights, his microwave burn stuff on the outside while leaving the inside frozen, his television change channels ever time his neighbour uses his remote garage-door opener, and his diet pills cause him to retain water. And that's just for first offenders.
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Pooh-Bah
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"He put on his jacket and his courage".
There was a song lyric that went "she raised her eyes, her glass and his hopes." (Have Some Madiera M'dear. by Flanders and Swann)
"small but immense" should simply have been "small but important" or some such equivalent. It sounds to me more like a translation error than a mistake by an English speaker.
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Pooh-Bah
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That the malefactor’s truck run out of gas while the gauge still shows a quarter tank, his spouse run off with his former best friend, his rifle jam when he has the biggest buck he’s ever seen in his sights, his microwave burn stuff on the outside while leaving the inside frozen, his television change channels ever time his neighbour uses his remote garage-door opener, and his diet pills cause him to retain water. And that's just for first offenders.
Yes, and for recidivism I withdraw my objection to capital punishment. Lock up the murderers and the rapists for life, by all means. But, for pity's sake, save society from the lasting damage and continuous nausea caused by advertising "executives" at work. Please. It's a matter of ... well, life and death, I guess!
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>what y'all are railing against is the use of advertising hype.
Well, I can't speak for the others with whom you so kindly lump me in , but I was not railing against the use of advertising hype. I was seeking opinions on what seemed to me to be a genuinely stupid, clumsy bit of writing that gave the appearance of being self-contradictory. That's all.
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the appearance of being self-contradictory
I thought we'd refuted that.
One small step…
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>the appearance of being self-contradictory
I thought we'd refuted that.
Well, maybe. A case, (a strong one, imo) can still be made for saying that, using the most common definitions of both small and immense, the text is self-contradictory. Even allowing that the writer was being exceptionally precise and careful in his or her word choice, the phrasing still sounds clumsy and stupid to me.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with my last post. My last post had to do with my instinctive aversion to being told what I was thinking.
I was not one of the "y'all" who were, apparently, railing against advertising hype. And I seldom need anyone to tell me what it is that I was trying to communicate.
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journeyman
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journeyman
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what seemed to me to be a genuinely stupid, clumsy bit of writing that gave the appearance of being self-contradictory
Dear sjmaxq, it is a given that the best advertising copy is copy which people notice and which people remember. If the copy generates light-hearted discussion [eg. is it good grammar, bad grammar?], that is a huge bonus.
Measured by these standards, the sample you brought before us, "one small but immense improvement", is neither "stupid" nor "clumsy" but, instead, clever, provocative and wildly successful.
Forever after, all of us will remember the phrase "small but immense improvement" and we will simultaneously connect it with office furniture. You have paid the author of the ad the highest compliment available. Whether or not you like the ad yourself is quite beside the point.
The only thing you didn't do is name the manufacturer of the office suite.
You have certainly piqued my curiosity. Where can I buy this furniture? [I have a small room where I am dying to make an immense statement.]
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Pooh-Bah
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What max actually wrote was:- In reply to:
From a review of an Office suite:
"One small but immense improvement from version 1.0 is . . ."
(to save you going back to the top)
Knowing his precise turn of mind, I think it is unlikely that he has allowed any typo's to creep in to this quote, therefore the capitalization of "Office" is not a mistake, and the term, "suite," in conjunction with the phrase, "version 1.0" leads me to deduce that this is not an office suite on which you might sit or recline, despite (and because of) the implication that the wares are soft.
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Thanks, Rhub. You're right, of course. It is a suite of software with "Office" in the title. Also, to vbq, and any who think I was annoyed by advertising hype - I said in my very first post "from a review". It was not advertising copy, it was part of a two page review of the software. As it happens, the software in question is both Open Source and freeware, so there really was no element of "advertising" in the commercial sense. I think that if I had meant "advertising" there is a good chance that I would have said "advertising."
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I was not one of the "y'all"
If the shoe doesn't fit…
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Pooh-Bah
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If the shoe doesn't fit…
sounds like a lame excuse, to me.
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Carpal Tunnel
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>I said in my very first post "from a review".
a small, but immense, point; in light of the discussion which followed.
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>>I said in my very first post "from a review".
a small, but immense, point; in light of the discussion which followed.
I have plenty of modelling clay, tsuwm, so if you could just send me some of your hair and/or fingernails, I can finish the doll I'm working on.
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There's a word I'm not remembering for a usage
Syllepsis! Thanks, wsieber!
(Odd--the Search on the word courage didn't find this; but jacket did.)
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Pooh-Bah
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> the appearance of being self-contradictory
I thought we'd refuted that.
One small step…
At last I get to post and it's been said. The first thing that I thought of when I read the first post was Neil Armstrong, so I wonder if there was a hint of irony in the writer's mind, comparing the change in sotware with landing on the moon. But then ... I do tend to see irony where, maybe, it ain't.
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Pooh-Bah
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Yep, if it comes from the US, irony isn't my natural first port of call ...
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