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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Sep 2007
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Now, I'm no true linguaphile, I recognize, but I'm not convinced by this following description of the etymology of orange in today's AWAD post for the word eyas. They were coined by a process called false splitting. Let's take
orange. The original word was Sanskrit naranga. By the time it reached
English, the initial letter n had joined the article a, resulting in
"an orange". The word for orange is still narangi in Hindi, naranja in
Spanish, and naranj in Arabic. This doesn't make sense to me because English is the only langauge that has these articles-- and thus the ability for the word to evolve in the suggested way-- and yet orange is the same in French and German, too. French, of course is un and une, and German is der, die, and das. So while the theory sounds plausible, unless there's some proof that the word migrated first into English and them from there into German and French, I think it's incorrect. Cheers, Kenn Sebesta P.S. French dictionaries indicate that the word came into French from the Italian arancia: http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/orange
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
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There's also two separate oranges in English. The Dutch Royal house from a town in Southern France which the Romans called Aurasio (today called Orange in French and Aurenja in Occitan) and the citrus fruit. The later seems to have come into European languages via Italian melarancio (from mela 'apple' and arancio 'orange', which the French calqued as pome (d')orenge, from the same French dictionary entry linked to above. But, it seems likely to me, too, that orange is not like adder or newt.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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thanks for that info on the royal house of Orange.
NYC has a blue/white/orange flag (from its dutch origins) and there are orange counties (in nystate, and nj) and i always wondered why the was a house of orange.
(since my vague knowledge of european history recognizes there was a conflict with spain and the 'low lands' (and that at some point the netherlands became independant (again--i am presuming) but why they kept a house of Orange? (since i presumed that the county and the fruit shared a common source)
i think i know most of what i know about the conflict between spain and the netherlands from sea shanties, not history books!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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And DisneyLand and DisneyWorld are both in Orange County.
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stranger
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stranger
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I'm intrigued that this linguistic metamorphosis has a name. We thought we'd invented it in our household when my young son told use he needed an ote for some reason or other. It was very confusing, as we couldn't really figure out what an 'ote' was (as it was unlikely he was asking for an 'oat'). Turns out, it became clear that he was talking about A Note... or... an ote.
Language is such a fascinating world!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
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Hi Annie,
and kids don't expect adults to make sense so they don't ask for clarification they just assume it's a word they don't know.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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yeah, but... Orange counties in states that grow oranges aren't too strange.
Orange counties in NYState or NJ do seem odd.
the orange counties in california and florida (given there spanish origins) might be place name (even if orange is in southern france and not spain..(is there also an orange in spain (there is valencia that share a name with a variety of oranges..)
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
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I tried to by real Seville marmalade in Seville. 15 minutes after asking for marmalade de naranjas I learned that marmalade means any sort of jam in Spanish and that what we call Seville oranges are not called naranjas and that the toast spread made from them has a nother name not at all related to marmalade.
But eventually I got my Mom's souvenir. (I don't even like the stuff)
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
Back to the OP... (oh noes!)
The French dictionary that goes "all the way" back to Italian does not explain the initial 'n' in Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, etc. words for orange. Since oranges came to Europe from India and points further east by way of Persia, all those older Eastern languages seem a rather glaring indicator that there was originally an 'n' or that there's something else mysterious to explain away before you can assume that Italian is the authority.
Back to Slightly Off Topic... (yeah!)
Remember that New York, New York used to be New Amsterdam, New Netherlands and the rulers of the Netherlands hold the title Prince of Orange. Related topic: "Why are carrots orange?" (which I think we've done before).
Last edited by Myridon; 09/12/07 04:34 PM.
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