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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3 |
Greetings,
The recent note about the utility of Italian words in English has reminded me of a paradox: in using these 'loan words' (as I believe is the technical term) they have english pronunciation, eg 'gusto' or 'traits' are not pronounced 'gooosto' or 'tray', and if you try it no one will understand you (unless you move in those circles where Petrarchean sonnets are discussed). I am sure that even 'risorgimento' can be englished, though most users of this word would prefer the proper pronunciation.
Is this a general rule, that common loan words are Englished?
TomH
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Off the top of my head, I would say it probably depends on who uses the word, how long it's been hanging around in English, and how predictable the foreign pronunciation is from the spelling.
A word like risorgimento is pretty firmly tied to its Italian origin and is rarely used in non-Italian contexts. This would be helpful in keeping it close to the original pronunciation. Gusto on the other hand is much less closely tied to Italian contexts and its pronunciation has been anglicised.
Schadenfreude is probably a relatively recent import (I'm open to correction on this) and so has been much less anglicised than the pronunciation of other German loan words. I don't know German so I can't give definite examples from that language, but think how far compound (= enclosed place) has wandered from kampong .
I'm not sure mispronounced is a good heading for this thread. After all once English has adopted a word, why should we keep to its foreign pronunciation? Think of how quixotic and Quixote are drifting apart in their pronunciation because some people want to show off their familiarity with the Spanish pronunciation for Quixote. Pure snobbery in other words.
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Tom,
Good to have you. I think you've brought up a question to
which there is no "right" answer (she said, being rather tired of rules at the moment). This one also reminds me of
chaise longue becoming chase lounge.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
the snobbery point is an important issue.
with a word like "risorgimento", how long can you rrrroll the rs in company of people who don't without looking like a complete ponce?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>how long can you rrrroll the rs
Reminds me of a girl I knew in college. She could roll her rs with the best of them.
Ted PLOPS firmly into the gutter
TEd
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rrrright, William, I'll bite. What's a ponce?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Looks like TEd made a pun this time that all the non-Americans will understand.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ponce is slang for a pimp. Hence a person with high ideas of his own self-worth who in actual fact just makes himself ridiculous.
Incidentally, is there such a thing as a female pimp?
Bingley
Bingley
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