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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks to all who partishipated! With apologies for flu-induced slow reply, here goes: The three leading entrants were as follows. Fiberbabe gave us: Fancy a glass of chardonnay, Seamus? The rationing commission surely shakes their heads with chagrin at the racial tensions in oceanic nations. "Schwa" finds no rational position in the aforementioned composition.... I should have mentioned ~ Tricia feels passionate about these issues. And she thinks your champagne is delicious!I would tend to discount Seamus as an imported name, of the kind that even now gives some native English speakers qualms about pronunciation; whereas chardonnay and champagne seem to have been more genuinely assimilated – after all, we could have chosen to bastardise the pronunciation to something like tcham-pain, but have accepted the sibilant alternative. So I would score it: ce oceanic cha chardonnay, chagrin, champagne ci racial, Tricia, delicious sh shakes, should, she si tensions sch schwa ss commission, passionate, issues su surely ti rationing, nations, rational, position, mentioned, composition belligerentyouth gave a good set, which I would slightly condense to: cea ocean ch chalet, chandelier ci technician sh shown, shadow s as in sure si lesion sch schwa, scholy (??) ss submission, intermission tion inertia, motion, contention Marty played a blinder with his shining examplesh: I appreciate the mission, even though it has put us under pressure. I was conscious of some tension, but, with the luxury of an internet-enabled machine and the oceans of information available, plus a dash of panache, I was sure that I could initiate a response. But after a while the task began to give me the schist. I felt quite nauseous, especially wondering how the fuchsia I could include 'stanchion'. Marty claims 17 in that paragraph – I would score it like this: ce oceans che panache chi stanchion, machine chs fuchsia cia especially, appreciate sci conscious sch schist se nauseous (??) si tension sh dash ss mission,pressure su sure ti initiate, information Marty remarked “I'm sure there'll be difference of opinion over some pronunciation” – I would be interested to know for example how everyone treats nauseous. Is it nor-se-us or perhaps naw-jeuss, or will you let him in with naw-shh-us? Personally I would have expected one of the first two as more common, tho’ am expecting to be corrected! Having started with my own list of around ten, I have had time to only run a brief reference, coming up with these examples in one reference* book: “There are no fewer than thirteen spellings for ‘sh’: shoe, sugar, issue, mansion, mission, nation, suspicion, ocean, conscious, chaperon, schist, fuchsia, and pshaw. “I therefore propose a composite  : ce oceans
cha chaperon
che panache
ch stanchion, machine, especially, appreciate
chs fuchsia
ci racial, technician
psh pshaw
sci conscious
sch schist
s sure
si tension
sh dash
ss mission, issues
ssu pressure
su sure
ti initiate, informationI include the ‘cha’ and ‘che’ as different since the latter functions with a silent vowel, rather than a sounded vowel that clearly changes the preceding letter. If you have any challenges, comments or other suggestions you think need adding, feel free to post them here! (The book goes on to add, BTW, that “an old bit of doggerel for foreign students advises: Beware of heard ,a dreadful word
That looks like beard and sounds like bird ,
And dead : it’s said like bed , not bead – For goodness’ sake, don’t call it deed!”  ) I’ll pojzt the conteshtants’ preshies shortly… *I can thoroughly recommend this book, both as cracking read and good reference, if you have not come across it already: The Story of EnglishRobert McCrum, with William Cran and Robert McNeil Faber & Faber, 1986. ISBN: 0 571 13828 4
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Joined: Dec 2000
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old hand
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old hand
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I've since consulted a book on Oxford English after and it spoke of 8 official different spellings which are pronounced 'sh', though this did include any foreign ones. I guess some of the afore mentioned were double..
'su' same as 's' - sure
'che' - panache same as 'ch'- machine
Anyways, that was great poser Mav!
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Pooh-Bah
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a great poser mavYou could be right, b-y But I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread, mav, even though I can't completely agree your final list. For instance, "Mission" and "Tension" are identical usages. The double "s" in the first is a function of the preceding vowel, which should have its pronounciation altered if there were only one "s". The bit that gives the "SH2 sound is the "si-". The same argument is true for "pressure" and "sure", I think. (although I can see other arguments that contradict what I have claimed, in that instance.) And you CERTAINLY CANNOT be allowed to have "sure" in as an example of both "s" and "su" !!!  Apart from that, it's an excellent list! Many thanks for it.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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I have to agree that I would say naw-shh-us for nauseous.
I should stop reading this board when I'm at school, while my Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English is at home, because I can't really give you the "official" Canadian pronunciation (whatever that may be worth!).
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
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I can't completely agree your final listGood! A visit here without learning anything but bloody recipes will be a dull day. And yes, sweetie-darling-sweetie, once an actor, always an actor, I sur-pose Yep: the repetition of the ‘s’ sound was a simple blooper of cut’n’pasting – shorry. You say: "Mission" and "Tension" are identical usages. The double "s" in the first is a function of the preceding vowel, which should have its pronounciation altered if there were only one "s". The bit that gives the "SH” sound is the "si-".Leaving pronouns aside , is this true? What about the reason for why we pronounce missing completely differently to mission? Wouldn’t your suggestion imply a pronunciation more like “mis-shon” or even “mis-she-on”? Tell me more.
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old hand
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Thanks for the link. I hadn't read the article before but I know the author, though down here in Catholic Bavaria the Süddeutsche Zeitung is preferred. Funny, Herr Schirrmacher seems to have taken something else away from Ray Kurzweil's latest spot of technical arrogance than I. I will happily admit that it was an intriguing read, but I am by no means basing 'our' future round it. Ray created so many clauses in his prophesies, that he seemed to just reinforce that the future doesn't exist.
As for Frank's thoughts on Europe, well, it certainly contains a grain of truth, though I dare say that many Europeans have not lost sight of the importance of good ol' fashioned learning (without digital help), as appose to them being Luddites. The digital myopia which has spread across America will, I hope, not find the same footing in Europe. Otherwise a dystopia of idiot savants, thinkers but non-thinkers, worse than those envisioned by Burgees, Bradbury or Orwell may be on the cards. I'd prefer to 'clumsily avoid the issue' than place all my hopes in it.
I'm currently reading a book entitled 'Unnatural Selection' which also contains lots of 'very slippery slopes' as Kurzweil would put it.
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