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#11598 11/29/00 08:01 PM
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of troy Offline OP
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Jazz comments:

but didn't the Crusades go 0-9 for the Church?

And Max replies:

Surely 0-9 is a little harsh? After all, Jerusalem was taken and held for a while during one of the Crusades. As morally repugnant as the Crusades were, I think the score was probably closer to something like 2-7. Just my $0.02
(see)
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=8800&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=4&vc=1

but from a linguistic point of view, (and cultural) they were a rounding success. Not only did we get the word algebra, we got algebra! And alchemy, and lest we forget, it was the moors who introduced coffee to Spain, and from there it went to the Spanish court- Isabella gave up wine as court drink (an offering) and drank coffee instead–a bitter drink to remind herself of the bitter effort of ridding Spain of the moors. From there it went (over the next hundred years) on to the rest of Europe–except of course to England. There was some political dispute about a divorce...

But the crusades gave us a lots of other words and concepts.

And since most of Europe was pretty unhappy about the plague, and didn't want that to happen again, we also got the Italian solution– isolation until infestation has past. A quarantine (14 days? 40 days?) check with bob young, since I am off to the store to buy 4 kilos of sausage or was it a 1/4 kilo? i know just enough to know 4 and ten are in the word–but is it 4 and ten? Or 4 times 10? One of them!

Any other words you can think of from our arabic neighbors?



#11599 11/29/00 08:21 PM
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In reply to:

Any other words you can think of from our arabic neighbors?


Where would Western navies be without their admirals? Then of course, there's Arabic loanword to which I am allergic - alcohol. I wonder if you could clarify something for me. You mention algebra et al as being by-products of the Crusades. I always thought that they were obtained through the Moorish governance of Iberia, rather than through the Crusades to Palestine. Would you mind filling in this gap in my understanding?

As an aside on the matter of quarantine, I think that if you read the Mosaic Law, you will find that it had quarantine regulations which were quite advanced for the time. It may be a pity that the mediæval Church and State didn't think to apply them.


#11600 11/29/00 08:51 PM
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of troy Offline OP
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I never heard about a break down of which words came from Iberia, and which the crusaders brought back-- but I think I read somewhere that algebra came from Italy-- (Milan? the first university?) where the use of arabic numbers and double entry bookkeeping was first taught mid to late 1300's. (in Accounting 101!)

Chaucer, was sent to study in Italy for year (by King Edward ??) He was the head of the Custom House (London) where in off hours he scribbled off some poems. (but i don't enough of his biography to be sure he was off to learn double entry bookkeepping.)



#11601 11/29/00 09:17 PM
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I never heard about a break down of which words came from Iberia, and which the crusaders brought back-- but I think I read somewhere that algebra came from Italy-- (Milan? the first university?) where the use of arabic numbers and double entry bookkeeping was first taught mid to late 1300's. (in Accounting 101!)

Thanks, of troy - it's always nice to have gaps filled in.



#11602 11/30/00 02:46 PM
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In reply to:

quarantine 4 days? 40 days?



It's 40. Comes from quaranta , Italian for 40. For those who are linguistically challenged like my wife, you have quarto quarter; quattro four; quattordici fourteen; quaranta forty.


#11603 12/01/00 01:09 AM
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Ok, I am talking off the top of my head now (with many many posts to view!! Do you guys ever work or anything? )... but, without doing any research now, I believe the first university was in Toledo, Iberia, founded by Arabs. Spanish and Portuguese sport a lot of Saracen [ahem] words, many of which, as y'all have noted, filtered on in to English. Sugar is one of them, yes indeed. Isabella could have put some al-sucar into her bitter Ethiopian coffee and have had a much better time of things. But hers was a gesture, ¿sí? [shrug].


#11604 12/01/00 08:09 AM
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Historical note: the world's oldest university is in Cairo:

http://www.frcu.eun.eg/www/universities/html/azhar.html#history

Bingley


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#11605 12/17/00 06:46 AM
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>Any other words you can think of from our arabic neighbors? <

Pyjamas? Pajamas? I'm so confused I can't remember how I spell it now, and my dictionary gives both. At least it doesn't include PJs....



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