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Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > Topic Options #9872 - 11/05/00 12:01 PM Orientated? metameta newbie Registered: 09/20/00 Posts: 29 Loc: Sonoma County, California I'll bet that this one is "old hat" for you wordy-birdies, but I am nagged by the question of the validity of the word "orientate." I most recently heard it spoken in a public lecture given by a respected Doctor of Anthropology from the National Museum of Natural History. He mentioned how important it was to notice how particular remains were "orientated" at an excavation. Is this a word? And, if so, how does it differ in meaning from the more common "oriented"? Thanks for your help! Top #9873 - 11/05/00 12:39 PM Re: Orientated? Jazzoctopus old hand Registered: 07/03/00 Posts: 1094 Loc: Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U... Oh, yes, this "word" has been discussed in much detail here. I think it would be proper to leave this one to Jackie, though. Top #9874 - 11/05/00 12:46 PM Re: Orientated? jmh Pooh-Bah Registered: 03/22/00 Posts: 1981 From our past discussion it seems that this word is more common in the UK: To orient: “He . . . stood for a moment, orientating himself exactly in the light of his knowledge” (John le Carré). My UK dictionary shows disorientated but not disoriented. The easy way to look up previous discussions is to type the word into "search", selecting all forums, all dates. Top #9875 - 11/05/00 12:51 PM Re: Orientated? jmh Pooh-Bah Registered: 03/22/00 Posts: 1981 You will find Jackie's opinion at the address shown below. She is a little "backward in coming forward" so you may need to read between the lines a little! http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=wordplay&Number=4792 Top #9876 - 11/05/00 03:11 PM Re: Orientated? Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10393 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky I think of the word orientate as applying specifically in terms of direction (north, south, east, or west). (See, sometimes I can show a little restraint.) Top #9877 - 11/05/00 03:36 PM Beastly Barbarism Father Steve Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/06/00 Posts: 2779 Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA The noun "Orient" means east. The intranstive verb "orient" means to face east. The transitive verb "orient" means to situate something such that it faces east or is alligned to the east. Something so arranged has an east-west "orientation" as a result of the action of the person doing the situating or alligning. From the quite legitimate work "orientation" derives the beast barbarism "orientate." While it cannot be said that "there is no such word," it can be said that persons who use this word (1) are ill-informed, (2) need correction and (3), if resistent to correction, ought be boiled in their own suet. And, of course, they need our prayers. Top #9878 - 11/05/00 03:38 PM Re: Beastly Barbarism Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10393 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky Thank you Father!!!!! Top #9879 - 11/05/00 03:49 PM Re: Beastly Barbarism Max Quordlepleen Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/12/00 Posts: 3409 While I'm not a huge fan of the word myself, Merriam-Webster says that you have 150 years of history against you. Maybe someone who has access to the OED could proffer excerpts from other writers who should be "boiled in their own suet." Top #9880 - 11/05/00 04:05 PM Re: Beastly Barbarism Father Steve Carpal Tunnel Registered: 09/06/00 Posts: 2779 Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA I am unimpressed by the authority of Merriam-Webster in this case, as this dictionary is descriptive rather then prescriptive. To fix the first use of a barbarism at a point 150 years ago simply means that some illiteracies are less vincible than others and that their imitation is persistent. Thus Fowler says of "orient" and "orientate": "The second, a long variant of the first, seems likely to prevail in the common figurative use." (2d ed., 1965, p. 423) Top #9881 - 11/05/00 04:19 PM au contraire, mon ami tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Registered: 04/03/00 Posts: 9577 Loc: this too shall pass I have always been of an opinion which tended towards that of Jackie and Father Steve, but I thought it would be instructive to see how M-W and the OED treat these. interestingly, this is one case where they agree in the main. 'orient' predates 'orientate' by about 100 years (ca. 1740 vs 1849). the original sense of the verb orient was to arrange to face to the east (they verbed the noun, which comes from the Latin word for east). from there the word has been generalized. (imagine that!) it seems that 'orientate' may NOT be a back-formation from 'orientation' (as I had also thought) but rather it was formed from the French orient-er in the same manner as some other English verbs [e.g., separate, create, isolate from separer, creer, isoler]. so it is completely parallel to orient in all of its senses and appears to have developed on a separate path! _________________________ joe friday Top Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > Previous Topic Index Next Topic Preview Hop to: General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. 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