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#187586 - 11/02/09 11:58 AM ACNESTIS
kah454 Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Long Island, NY USA
There can be no doubt, after last nights 9th inning comeback, that the New York Yankees are the acnestis to fans of the Philadelphia Phillies.

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#187594 - 11/02/09 03:29 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: kah454]
Tara Guy Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 1
It is very satisfying that is there is a word for that annoying, unreachable itch. But does it strike anyone but me as odd that the ancient Greek word acnestis refers not only to "spine" but to "cheese grater"?? Maybe it's just me.............

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#187595 - 11/02/09 04:13 PM Re: acnestis [Re: Tara Guy]
zmjezhd Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 2270
Loc: R'lyeh
Greek ακνηστις aknēstis 'backbone' < κνηστις knēstis 'spine; cheesegrater' < PIE *kenə-, knē- 'to scratch, scrape, rub'. The words are quite rare and their meanings did not seem to stop Homer from using them: the former in Odyssey 10.161 (a stag is struck by Odysseus' bronze spear in the spine) and the latter in Iliad 11.640 (a bronze grater is used to grate cheese into a cup of wine). It does not seem like to far a semantic journey from a cheese grater to a spine.

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#187621 - 11/03/09 11:18 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: kah454]
Barney Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 3
I was trying to figure out this acnestis and think that it basically means 'not scratching oneself' from the reflexive meaning of the verb which knestis comes from. Maybe then it came to apply to the back, the difficult-to-scratch-oneself place. Then to spine as back? And cheese-grater, an implement to avoid when scratching oneself anywhere, a not-scratching-oneself implement. The last a bit of a stretch I know and some will doubt the authenticity. Great site!

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#187630 - 11/03/09 09:05 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Barney]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 12381
I would guess that the 'cheese grater' reference came from the fact that cheese graters are kind of bumpy like the spine is, and, rather than cobble together a new word for it they decided to adapt an already existing word. As they say, "The Greeks had a word for it." And tsuwm probably knows what it is.

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#187634 - 11/04/09 12:50 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Faldage]
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 9400
Loc: this too shall pass
d'oh. (see above)

but to carry on a bit, knaô 'to scrape or grate' is prolly the ultimate root

-ron o.

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#187643 - 11/04/09 06:51 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: tsuwm]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 12381
Ha! So, parboly, the metaphorical meaning went the other way. The spine was so named for its resemblance to the cheese grater.

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#187644 - 11/04/09 09:08 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Faldage]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3387
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Hmm...speculations. I like that. Maybe before the iron cheese grater was invented they used the spine of a deceased small mammal for a cheese grater. ( if of course by that time cheese was invented.) which makes cheese grater and spine Oldtimer synonyms.

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#187651 - 11/04/09 12:29 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: BranShea]
LukeJavan8 Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 830
Loc: Land of Flat River
Thanks Bran;
I may never grate cheese again.

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#187660 - 11/04/09 03:16 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: LukeJavan8]
Barney Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 3
Granted that knao, with its basic meaning of scraping is the source word for knestis, the cheese grater, and that it's possible that the grater was the model for the spine, from a language perspective,I am puzzled why a-knestis for spine or backbone. What sense would alpha-privative make? Is it too far-fetched to think this alpha is not privative but alpha-combining as in a Gk word like a-koites, having the same place to lie down, sharing the same bed = spouse? So, having the same appearance as a cheese-grater = spine. I don't know but it's worth throwing out this kind of speculation which sounds awfully much like a popular etymology. But back to it: how to account for a-knestis?

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#187663 - 11/04/09 04:58 PM Re: aknestis [Re: Barney]
zmjezhd Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 2270
Loc: R'lyeh
I was not saying that the a- was the privative prefix, although it makes no less sense than the combing prefix. I was simply saying, along with others, that is looks probable that knēstis and aknēstis are related.

Here's what Chatraine has to say:
Quote:
Le mot à rapprocher de κνηστις «râpe à fromage», cf. sous -κναιω, et on admet que les deux termes sont identiques, cf. Bechtel, Gl. 1, 72, Wackernagel, Gl. 2, 1, Bechtel Lexilogus 27, , enfin Leumann, Hom. Wörter 49: ακνηστις serait né d'une coupure fautive, chez Hom., de κατα ακνηστιν en κατ' ακνηστιν. Toutefois il n'est pas absolument impossible que ακνηστις ait été créé dès la langue hom. pour distinguer les deux mots, l'alpha pouvant être une prothèse.
I'll see if I can chase down the references cited.

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#187665 - 11/04/09 06:20 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: LukeJavan8]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3387
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Originally Posted By: LukeJavan8
Thanks Bran;
I may never grate cheese again.
If in the days before prefixes we skated on bones, who knows what we grated our stuff on. ( you can buy it already grated )

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#187666 - 11/04/09 09:11 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Barney]
Barney Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 3
a prothetic vowel, if so, that's brilliant.

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#187668 - 11/05/09 05:44 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Barney]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3387
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
smile Wow! why did it not occur to me before? About this grate and spine thing: our word for spine is ruggegraat, i.e. rug = back; graat = bone. The bones of fishes are called graten. Etymology unfindable. (disastrous to have supposedly bright ideas at the point of falling asleep)


Edited by BranShea (11/05/09 08:38 PM)
Edit Reason: smile
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#187704 - 11/09/09 10:18 PM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: BranShea]
Jackie Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 10232
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I had to look this one up:
pro·thet·ic
: the addition of a sound to the beginning of a word (as in Old French estat—whence English estate—from Latin status) (M-W on-line) Cool!

Branny! Here, a rugrat is a small child!

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#187706 - 11/10/09 05:57 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: Jackie]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3387
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Ha! That's cool too. Today's rugrats hopefully will be the backbone of tomorrow's society. ;-)

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#187707 - 11/10/09 08:25 AM Re: ACNESTIS [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 2270
Loc: R'lyeh
ruggegraat

Interesting word. German has Rückgrat 'backbone, spine, chine'; Grat 'ridge, spine, crest'; Gebirgsgrat 'mountain ridge'; Fischgräte, Gräte 'fish bones.

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