vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ

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#187550 - 11/01/09 10:04 AM vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ
zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 2270 Loc: R'lyeh	I was looking at Robert of Gloucester's Metrical Chronicle (ca.1330 CE), especially the earlier bits he cribbed from Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniæ. I was struck by this passage especially: Quote: Þo biþoȝte vortiger · mest of alle þinge · Hou he miȝte do quoyntelucost · þat he him sulf were king · Vor þat was alwei is þoȝt · & þeruore the monek he nom · To be king vor he was nyce · & ne couþe no wisdom · Then Vortigern understood; above all things; How he might carry out most cunningly; that he himself were king; For that was always his thought; and therefore he took the monk; to be king because he was foolish; and he knew not no wisdom; Here we have nice meaning 'foolish' and a full-blown double negative.
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#187553 - 11/01/09 02:36 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 3387 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	þ that the character meaning th? Funny. : -)
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#187556 - 11/01/09 04:10 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 6481 Loc: lower upstate New York	Love the thread title, Nuncle, and I'm sure Faldage will love the last line as much as I do. Thanks for posting it.
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#187566 - 11/01/09 09:16 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/24/02 Posts: 6595 Loc: Vermont	niþ
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#187569 - 11/02/09 12:42 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10232 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	But can we count it as a full-blown double negative when 'no' in the modernized version clearly equals 'any'?
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#187573 - 11/02/09 05:59 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 12381	Originally Posted By: Jackie But can we count it as a full-blown double negative when 'no' in the modernized version clearly equals 'any'? Sure we can. We replaced the no with the any because we got bullied into thinking negative harmony was wrong.
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#187603 - 11/02/09 10:04 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 10232 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky	negative harmony I love it! Edit: that means the notes below the tonic, right? Edited by Jackie (11/02/09 10:05 PM)
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#187615 - 11/03/09 06:23 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 12381	I couldn't find any non-musical hits when I googled it but I can't believe I coined the term. Maybe Nuncle Z could help me out here.
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#187616 - 11/03/09 06:44 AM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: Faldage]
zmjezhd Pooh-Bah Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 2270 Loc: R'lyeh	I couldn't find any non-musical hits when I googled it but I can't believe I coined the term. No help here. I knew what you meant by harmony. When I googled with the following, "negative harmony" -music -tone, this thread comes up midway down the first page of hits.
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#187629 - 11/03/09 08:58 PM Re: vor þe tonge hit chaungeþ [Re: zmjezhd]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 12381	Well, I just guess I'll have to define it my own self: Negative harmony is the requirement that if a verb is negated in a sentence then either the subject or the object or both must also be negated, Examples English - I ain't got no money Spanish - No hay nada 'There isn't nothing.' Russian - Я не знаю. Я ничего никогда не знаю. 'I don't know. I don't never know nothing.'
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