Terrific, Connie! That's just what I'm getting at. And want for the kids. Determining climax is such an abstract and (finally) debatable kind of activity that kids get confused--and understandably so.

With so many stories being identified as having the climax toward the end because of the pet phrase "moment of highest emotional intensity"--well, that judgment is very, very subjective and (perhaps) arguably incorrect. Especially if you consider what I think is a much better pet phrase (especially since it appeals to me ): "the turning point." Turning point is more objective than 'moment of highest emotional intensity'--and it would help one get through Shakespeare as well as through contemporary stories.

Am I just too much of a renegade to want to suggest: We should welcome student writers to indentify climaxes--and to support their arguments without being so damned concerned whether we agree with them? The "moment of highest emotional intensity" really bugs the hell out of me. I think a suicide is a pretty emotionally intense moment, to tell you the truth, and I would understand why a 14-year-old student would want to argue that Romeo's death is a (relatively speaking) emotionally intense moment, and I could understand why a 14-year-old student might be confused by any argument I make about the climax having occurred earlier in the drama--that is if I just offered up the definition as being "the moment in the drama of highest emotional intensity." That's why I personally have problems with defining climaxes that way at all. Now turning point? Well, now we can talk. The turning point might be emotionally intense or perhaps not quite so emotionally intense.

I like the Lawrence short story--it's both an emotional point and also a turning point--and, yes, things continue to accelerate downwardly, just like that roller coaster metaphor I wanted to use. So, thanks for that example and I will definitely work in that story.

And I will go on record suggesting that this is a hard area to help bring a group of learners up to a level of confidence. And I might not do as good of a job as I hope to this year, but maybe it'll go better next year.

Thanks to all for the input.