Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
I'm trying to track down the originator of the quote:

"Chicanery girds the robes of infidels..."

...from Mhilleas Cearrbhach's erziehungrsroman Hope to Recoup. The novel is no longer published and I can't find anything on Google, though I've gone at it from so many directions.

Cearrbhach develops the above quote like a leit motif in an opera throughout his novel--and I'm sure the quote must come from a religious writer. But I'm coming up with nada.

Thanks for helping if you can.


Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
S
sjm Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
S
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
Do you know if that was the author's real name? I ask because Googling it turned up this:

Súil le cúiteamh a mhilleas an cearrbhach.
Hope to recoup is what ruins the card player (gambler).


If it was a pseudonym, it may be possible to contact the author or his estate, and ask directly. It appears that the publishers, Déanaim Neamhshuim Pty Ltd, may be your best bet for finding an answer.


Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
S
sjm Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
S
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
Further to this, it appears that the author's real name is Simon Breac, if this helps.


Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
His actual name was Mhilleas Cearrbhach. His mother took his name from the proverb--she'd been abandoned by Cearrbhach's father and consequently decided to give Cearrbhach a name independent of any father. The proverb had been a kind of life maxim for her--ergo the title of Cearrbhach's novel "Hope to Recoup," which is strictly autobiographical.

I'll check out Déanaim Neamhshuim Pty Ltd--that may help.


#99782 04/01/03 08:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Simon Breac was Cearrbhach's father.


#99783 04/01/03 09:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
S
sjm Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
S
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
Sorry, my Googling skills are obviously a bit rusty. I will keep looking, though.


Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
M
old hand
Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
What good luck! I'm a serendipitous genius!
Try googling Mhilleas Cearrbhach using only one "H".
Eurekas!! ...34 hits! One with a lengthy biography.
The guy was a nutcase.




Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467

the mother was a bit of a witch. The father said he would support the child if she'd give him a Breac, but she refused.



TEd
#99786 04/01/03 10:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Which brings up a pet peeve of mine that I'm seeing more and more often. Using break when brake is required. From a major news site: Be sure and check the breaks on your car.

Argh!



TEd
#99787 04/01/03 10:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Be sure and check the breaks on your car

Might be entirely appropriate if your car is into rap ...

- Pfranz

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I dunno, Dubdub--I don't think it necessarily had to have been a religious writer. I'll try to do some checking and get back to you at the end of the day.


Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Súil le cúiteamh a mhilleas an cearrbhach.
Hope to recoup is what ruins the card player (gambler).


From The Poker Encyclopedia:

"All veteran and professional poker players know that peculiar tug of desperate greed which lures the luckless deeper into the trenches of loss. It's when this sense of futility sets in that the chemistry of luck loses its winning edge completely, and further play can only result in more dire losses and the sure extermination of one's bankroll. This point of no return is captured in the old proverb, 'Hope to recoup is what ruins the card player,' from the Mhilleas Cearrbhach novel, Hope to Recoup. Happy are the veteran players who find a novice at their table who does not know when he has reached this precipice of loss."


#99790 04/01/03 03:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Your post reminded me of Bob Dylan. I wonder if that is relevant? Was the novel written at around the same time?

http://www.bobdylan.com/albums/infidels.html


#99791 04/01/03 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Jackie,

The reason I think the quote might be one of a mystic or some kind of religious writer is because the quote always appears in the bar sections of the story where Cearrbhach consistently visualizes the bartenders as priests. At one point in one bar scene Cearrbhach has two minah birds each chant one part of the leit motif:

Minah #1: Chicanery girds..

Minah #2: Robes! Infidels!

Everyone sitting around the anti-hero lifts the tankards on cue and guzzles them outright everytime the second minah says, "Infidels!".

The book was published in 1928, was only moderately well-received, but was published again in 1989. I think it's interesting because of the subplot that deals with quantum physics, perhaps the first novel to take a close look at a science that cannot be easily understood by gamblers.


#99792 04/01/03 06:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Your post reminded me of Bob Dylan. I wonder if that is relevant? Was the novel written at around the same time?

No, based on your link, jmh, http://www.bobdylan.com/albums/infidels.html
Dylan's Infidels was written in 1983. Of course, the fact that many poker addicts are also prone to infidelity is well known. So your suspicion of a connection there is understandable.




#99793 04/01/03 08:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
the subplot that deals with quantum physics... a science that cannot be easily understood by gamblers.

as opposed to metaphysics. you've got to know when to hold 'em, you've got to know when to fold 'em

holy $#!+, Hope to recoup is what ruins the card player is the epigram of Tim Powers' _Last Call_!

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Two AWADers sent me two contrary responses to the true authorship of Cearrbhach's quoted "Chicanery girds the robes of infidels." One declares that Hank E. Panky is the author and the other says it's a well-known observation of Póg Mo Thón. Since Póg Mo Thón coincidentally (or not) was the owner of Déanaim Neamhshuim Pty Ltd way back in 1928 when Hope to Recoup was first published, I'll put my money on Póg Mo Thón as the originator of the quote. So, Jackie, you were correct. Póg Mo Thón wasn't a mystic at all.

And if you believe any of the above balderdash, poppycock and malarkey, consider the date of these posts.

P.S. Thanks to sjm, milum, Ted, Cap, Jackie, Whit', jmh and tsuwm for adding to the fun of the day.





Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,317
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 811 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,534
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5