|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
As I understand it the philosophy behind veganism is not a matter of health but of concern for the oppression of other species of animal.
...he chooses not to eat anything that has been killed for his dinner when he can eat something else...
I remember a co-worker who told me she wouldn't eat anything that "had a face"...
... and (a Simpsons episode) where someone wouldn't eat anything that "casts a shadow".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
There is an ancient joke about the guy who refused to eat lambs tongue, because he
wouldn't eat anything that had been in an animal's mouth. He aske for couple eggs
instead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Yes, of course, there are those who profess not to eat meat because they won't kill animals...remember Melanie's song "I Don't Eat Animals"? But there are plenty others who come to vegetarianism for other reasons, a purely health-conscious perspective being the foremost among them. Then there are also religions which observe vegetarianism.
And then there are other issues, such as the treatment of animals harvested for food. Even as a fully practicing carnivore I refused to eat veal because of the way they torture the calves to produce the 'tender, white meat.'
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,534 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,534 Likes: 1 |
Generally I've been avoiding political discussions like the plague, but I feel I have to respond here.
WoN-
...many (but not all) medical doctors don't like for people to do things that keep them healthy or are preventative because they don't make money if people don't get sick...we don't practice "health care" in our society, we practice "sick care".
That's like asserting that the medical profession has been supressing a cure for cancer to line our pockets. There are zealots who believe that, too. Please believe me - neither statement is true.
To force the comment into the form of a word-post:
I would posit that "many-but-not-all" sounds as though you mean "half or more." If this is indeed your opinion, you have been lax in your evaluation of physicians, who deserve as much investigation as you gave to allegations about diets. Or else you've been very unfortunate in your exposure to physicians. I'll accept your characterization as applying to an occasional doctor, but most of the ones I know would much rather earn ourselves more personal time, by getting our patients to do what's good for them, than make more money. It's a losing battle much of the time.
Oversimplifying greatly: we may sometimes - maybe even often - seem to treat sickness to the exclusion of promoting healthful lifestyles, as you say, but that's partly from frustration (unspoken feeling, because it wouldn't be diplomatic to say it aloud: Why are you coming to me for help when you persist in doing things you KNOW are making you worse?) and partly because there's hardly enough time to deal with the immediate problems as is. Remember the alligators? "When you're up to your ears in alligators it's hard to remember that your original task was to drain the swamp..."
--speaking from the trenches: practicing cardiologist; office and hospital care; work only sixty hours a week (my practice is a small one)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
wofa, I actually added the parenthetical (but not all) when I thought of you because I didn't want to offend you with too broad a generalization. From a word standpoint 'there are many' would probably have been the better choice. And, of course, the majority of doctors are genuinely concerned with the health and well-being of their patients. But the mindset to remedy sickness rather than to prevent sickeness is something that has crept heavily into the medical science perspective, without malice, as the advance in technology and the focus on drugs has made the cure more important than the prevention. And this attitude has crept into the majority of the populace as well. I think, as indicated by some of your discussion above, this lazy attitude about not taking responsibility for one's health because, if you get sick, the doctors and drugs will take care of you, is something you can agree has become very damaging. And that is why I said we've become foused on "sick care" rather than "health care."
And, yes, there are some bad doctors, just like there are bad cops...my Dad was a pharmacist and my Mom a medical assistant, and we've known some doozies along the way. For instance, one young doctor just out of medical school who never talked about anything except how many patients he could "push through" his office on any given day with the $$ signs flashing in his eyes. But those guys are a small percentage. And, yes, our family's had some unfortunate experiences with doctors along the way (and also some very good ones, but that has more to do with personal competence. I was just trying to say that the overall viewpoint in the 20th century has moved to treating sickness rather than preventing it. And that this perspective has encompassed medical science as a general approach. Yet, I do think there are those in positions of power within the drug companies and the AMA who finance studies to discredit certain vitamins, for instance, which have proven enormously beneficial in preventing disease...a cynical business tactic, but what else is new, especially with big corps like the drug companies? Are there a handful of individual doctors out there who vociferously strive to discredit preventative medicine because of selfish financial greed?...probably. But, as you say, wofa, this is a small fraction of the overall picture. Then there are doctors who endeavor the same because they believe it to be the best approach, not because of financial greed, and I respect that. But I do believe that when we move away from this general societal perspective of lazy health habits and relying on treatment for disease, to a more individually responsible preventative health regimen (and we have, gradually, been doing this), we all will be better off for it. The doctor my mother worked for as a medical assistant back in the late 40's and early 50's before she had me, smoked 4 packs of red Pall Malls a day, and after I was born when she was 25 he encouraged her to start smoking to "calm her nerves", which she did. I'm sure he meant well, but could you imagine that happening today? He just didn't know then...if you got a lung problem, you'd treat it. What caused it wasn't important then. So things are changing....obviously.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,534 Likes: 1
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,534 Likes: 1 |
Agree with just about all of the above.
Doctors do know the value of preventive medicine, and are even - one might say - indoctrinated in it in medical school. And then the exigencies of real life kick in, and there are so many fires to put out that it's very hard to find the resources to make things fireproof in the first place. We haven't lost sight of it, are still working at it, but there's a lot of distraction in between.
We are making slow progress, though. In the field of coronary artery disease, for example, there are fewer smokers, more effective treatments for high blood pressure and high cholesterol levels and even diabetes, so that the outcome is much better. Now we worry about how to deal with the late (meaning twenty-years-after-you-didn't-succumb-to-your-heart-attack) manifestations of the disease.
Now if only we can keep from obliterating ourselves as a species through our own recklessness and arrogance...
[/end of political discussion :-) ]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Thanks for the interesting discussion, wofa. Case closed on this end as well. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Hi,
This is an extremely interesting link. I had no idea that the making of violin strings is such a complicated process, evidently replete with "tacit knowledge" and highly proprietary tricks. How long, do you think, will this knowledge survive?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
About as long as the knowledge of Stradivarius' secrets in violin making.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,317
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
596
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
