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#94222 - 02/07/03 07:47 PM
Re: It's Time to Dream Higher
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,879
wofahulicodoc
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Carpal Tunnel
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Worcester, MA
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It's maintaining a workable life-support system and a healthy crew for ten years in space which are the problems. The technology does not exist for this.
And that, of course, is the crux of the matter. We don't really know whether what we have available works or not without the testing we're doing now. I suspect it does, _if_ it can be made reliable enough. (Which, clearly, is a big "if.")
A word about the foam and tiles - it's the relative speeds that count. The 1200-2000 mph speed of the foam isn't that much different from the speed of the shuttle, so that even if it's hardened foam (not soft and squishy at all, the way we tend to picture "foam") the difference in speed may not be enough to make it a damaging projectile. A little slower to be sure, but enough to cause that kind of impact and damage? That's what the experts are trying to determine, as best thay can.
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#94224 - 02/07/03 08:08 PM
Re: It's Time to Dream Higher
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Wordwind
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Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
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In reply to:
A word about the foam and tiles - it's the relative speeds that count.
What you wrote makes sense.
But there's still the commentary made on Sunday that a piece of foam hit the exterior rocket engine in a lift-off over a year ago and made a dent in the steel.
This foam issue isn't minor. From what I've been reading, experts have warned about the foam problem for years. Modifications have been been, but I haven't inferred in reading anything that there was ever consensus that foam was now a non-issue.
So back to the fine point you made about relative speed. If what you wrote is abolutely true, then how did a piece of falling foam insulation put a dent into an exterior steel rocket engine? I'm curious about how the relative speed factor didn't come into play there.
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#94226 - 02/07/03 08:57 PM
Re: Relatively speaking
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Posts: 6,296
Wordwind
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Pretty good article here with a video clip of the foam falling: http://www.msnbc.com/news/867336.asp?vts=2720031323#BODYOne thing the video clip impressed upon me was the foam was falling in one direction, but the shuttle was moving upward in the opposite direction, so the force of impact would have been far greater than had the foam and shuttle been moving in the same direction. You're in a race with someone; you're moving in the same direction; he catches up with, slaps your hand forward; not too much pain. Completely different scenario if you're running toward each other and he slaps your hand--you're going to feel that impact more. In other words, had the shuttle been heading toward the earth and had hit a piece of foam heading the same direction, the impact wouldn't have been as great as in the case as it was. But the vulnerable part of the left wing--that leading edge--from this video clip it doesn't appear that the foam hit the leading edge where the problems have been assumed to have begun. Could just be the lack of clarity in the clip. Has anyone read any confirmation that the insulating foam hit the leading edge of the left wing?
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#94228 - 02/07/03 09:39 PM
Re: still speaking relatively
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Wordwind
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Well, for sake of argument, say the foam was immobile in space and the shuttle hit it at 2000 mph--hmmm. That's still quite a whack. And then let's say, again for sake of argument, that the glue on the tile on that leading edge hadn't been applied as precisely as it should have been, the tile itself could have been vulnerable.
That said, I really don't expect the gluing to have been a problem--though it certainly has been a past problem--especially with the leading edges on the wings, which were critical points. I would expect the crew that glued to have taken special care with the gluing of tiles onto those leading edges.
I hope the portion of the wing that was recovered today was the left wing...
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#94229 - 02/07/03 10:13 PM
Re: It's Time to Dream Higher
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
WhitmanO'Neill
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I see no reason not to continue with both programs in conjunction with the other. I'm all for the ISS, and was highly disappointed when they cut the size back so that habitation can only accommodate three astronauts/scientists rather than the intended twelve. That would have been a real little community working together in space, and would have greatly enhanced the amount of experimentation which could be conducted on an ongoing basis. But why couldn't we, for instance, have continued with the Apollo program at the same time we were developing the shuttles and space stations? I know it's largely due to budgetary concerns...so increase the budget! What we spend on space is a paltry sum compared to other areas of exorbitant expense. Both programs are important and should be pursued together, complimentary to one another...not as an either/or proposition. And I certainly don't see where "flag waving" is any longer a factor in all this...the Cold War "Space Race" had it's place, and that notion is now passé. I really don't think anybody's going to Mars to be the first one to plant a flag there. That trip will, and should be, an internationally supported journey to explore other worlds for the benefit of mankind...and maybe for proof of other life.
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