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#90400 - 12/30/02 02:40 PM Re: Flash (sort of)  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
milum Offline
old hand
milum  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
Birmingham, Alabama
The big problem with this PC cesspool is it forces us to go to that layer of the brain that is touchy as hell and hurt and limping and pathetic and offended and hypersensitive and say: "Dwell here. This is where We have come to Be and This is where We will Remain." It is a trap. It is Poison. It keeps us from considering any other possibility. It sees us as both an Enemy of the People and the Victim of the People. And it's hard being in the cesspool while functioning both as a potential victim and enemy--no room for sense of history, or acts of compassion, or pure fun, or anything else. We become absurd there because we do not allow ourselves--stuck in the pit--to think about anything other than plausible offensiveness. ~ wordwind

Golly. That was well put. A tip of the hat to you. I have nothing else to add or say other than...

"What she said."


#90401 - 12/30/02 02:43 PM Re: Flash (sort of)  
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Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Buffalo Shrdlu  Offline
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Vermont
But I'm not talking about using common sense here. I'm talking about dwelling in PC-ness. Dwelling there. It's a station of a place--PC Police walking the streets, their boots making the steady beat, beat, beat.

agreed.



formerly known as etaoin...
#90402 - 12/30/02 03:07 PM Re: Flash (sort of)  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
magimaria Offline
journeyman
magimaria  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
Wow, (and I don't mean our friend wow), I mean, oh my! There seems to be quite a bit of knee-jerk reaction to this pc thing in here. While I think all sides have their legitimate issues, I'll side with etaoin on this one. Surely the good people of this board know that words are incredibly powerful and have been the impetus for great good as well as great evil throughout human existance. While I certainly appreciate history and have a deep respect for my elders, including the ancient ones (and have no problem explaining things to younger people about the sociology of a different time/place) I do think that one might be thoughtful about the way certain words have been used against others.

And yes, Juan (Oh, did that come from W'On? I've been trying to figure that one out for a month now?!) it is appalling that Pete Seeger, of all people (!) would rewrite such a songbook. But we can choose what we wish to do, and to me, this is precisely the point. I am happy that each of you has a unique point of view, and even more gratified that we can share them in here.

But in the end, for me, words can be and and are often enormously hurtful (despite what is intended) and speech is often used to incite others to action, unfortunately, not always for the good. So I will continue to try to be thoughful, while not embracing the extremes of our wiccan sisters! (Who in the AWAD version of spellcheck came out as Wichita!!!! or was that Witchita!!!)

MM




#90403 - 12/30/02 03:44 PM overloading  
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tsuwm Offline
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tsuwm  Offline
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this too shall pass
I agree with all that's been said here regarding PCness run rampant. but here's the thing: with upwards of 600,000 words to choose from it's really the height of verbal laziness, at best, to personally choose a word that's overloaded and fraught with negative connotations when another word with a more precise sense is doubtless available. (see gay, niggardly, etc.) then you can go someplace such as this and complain about the vicissitudes of man.


#90404 - 12/30/02 04:03 PM Re: PC gone mad  
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wow Offline
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wow  Offline
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New England, USA
My goodness but aren't we taking ourselves seriously!
If all this Political Correctness keeps going at the current pace we will soon wipe out all double entendre jokes ... no more "Rocky and Bullmoose," cartoons on TV, no more having adult fun at children's movies with the things that go over the kids' heads but tickle the funnybone of all the parents dragooned into going to the latest "family" movie.
Anyone see "Spy Kids?" which was fun for the kids but was peppered with some pretty un-PC things for the grownups to keep the adults from expiring with boredom.
And what about Shaggy Dog stories? and TEd's puns ?and ...and .. and... if this keeps up I'm going to have to go have a good cry over the demise of all the gay abandon in the world!
I am all for eliminating or avoiding words that give real offense and are charged with hurtful meaning..like the n-word. But, c'mon, folks!
On the other hand : a few hundred years from now some group of musicians will be able to make a good living by performing the resurrected original forms of the changed songs, carols and hymns!!!! I mean, there are groups now that sing Ye Olde Carols and fill all the theater seats! Then too, books can be written about the way PC swept the world. And another new writing genre may be born!
Meanwhile, I subscribe to the theory that if - for instance - everyone in the room is Catholic we can tell jokes about the Pope!


#90405 - 12/30/02 04:38 PM Re: PC gone mad  
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WhitmanO'Neill Offline
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WhitmanO'Neill  Offline
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Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
Interestingly enough, the word "gay" has now been launched into a derisive connotation by the younger (college and under) generation in the expression "that's so gay" or substitute he, she, or it for "that". So do we need a new word again?

And, sometimes, there is now a hurtful, spiteful or even venegeful twinge to the historical and linguistic revisionisms launched by certain individuals or small groups of individuals within various groups, and I think it is this creeping reverse mean-spiritness that began leaving a lot of people cold about the direction this whole PC process is taking. For instance, it was released by some folks a few years back they had discovered that the model who sat for The Statue of Liberty (this will tie in with the PC/art debate) was a black woman (well, that's intriguing, I thought, something worthy to note historically if so), but then the article and implication took the stance that, since the model for the statue was a black woman it is therefore, now, a symbol for African-Americans and not the traditional symbol of European immigration. Now hold on there just a minute!, I thought. The Statue of Liberty is the cherished and time-honored symbol of the waves of European immigration that came to this country in the late 19th and early 20th Century, and since both sides of my family came here through Ellis Island, it is very meaningful and important to me. And nobody has the right to try to take that away from me. No matter who sat for that statue, if a Martian sat for that statue, it would still stand as a hallowed symbol of European immigration. And, truthfully, I felt insulted and offended, by what I felt to be a mean-spirited and spiteful attempt to strip The Statue of Liberty of its cherished symbolism. Yes, let history note that an African-American model sat for the statue if this is validated, but don't, then, strip the statue of its poignant symbolism and meaning for millions.

#90406 - 12/30/02 05:15 PM Re: PC gone mad  
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wwh Offline
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http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa020900b.htm

The above URL debunks urban legend that a black woman was model for the Staute of Liberty.

Incidentally, I learned a new word:"marquette" the preliminary small model of a large sculpture. There
are so many sited about Marquette University and people named Marquette that I copied only one
brief definition:A Marquette is a small version of a larger sculpture to be later
reproduced in bronze or stone.


#90407 - 12/30/02 05:34 PM Re: AWADies gone mad over pcisms....  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
magimaria Offline
journeyman
magimaria  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
Thanks again, Dr. Bill for straightening us all out on this one. She certainly doesn't look African to me....

Can't we all just get along?....

(just joking, in case you didn't know!)

mm


#90408 - 12/30/02 05:44 PM Picnics  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
magimaria Offline
journeyman
magimaria  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
And I have Dr. Bill to thank again for his urban legends site where I was able to check out that awful email I received years ago that took all of the joy out of 'picnic'ing. This whole thread brought that story back to my mind, but I thought it best, at the time, to leave it out of this conversation. Now I'm glad to find that it (thankfully) was untrue. If you think you know what I am talking about, just go to Dr. Bill's site and type in picnic!

It's time for a new thread, if not a new year!!!

maria


#90409 - 12/30/02 05:45 PM Re: PC gone mad  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,814
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah
Alex Williams  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,814
Spam Factory
But pruning pieces of words, and generic pronouns, and digging up new nuances of meaning to impart to long-standing terms to render them taboo, because small segments of certain groups demand it, seems silly and a bit self-defeating.

Amen to that.


A diehard feminist friend of mine...finally announced at a performance one night that she was no longer bothering to use the sexist changes to words as she had been for years, because, as she explained, one day she found herself wanting to take the "king" out of kingdom, and decided, then and there, that she, and others, were really going off the wall about all this, and that there were far better ways to work for the empowerment of women than by changing all these little pieces and nuances of words. And that feeling threatened by these words was not affirming her womanhood.


That woman represents a level of intelligence and sensibility that is sorely missing from the whole PC debate. Lucky* for her, as a woman she has the "right" to arrive at this decision and maintain credibility.

*I'd change "lucky" to "luckily" but it goes against my anti-revisionist stance.

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