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#90440 01/01/03 12:29 AM
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>There's not a damned thing wrong with calling those people Indians<
Dear sjm: now that I think of it, I am a bit surprised that the colonists called the "red men"
Indians, since it had been known over a hundred years that the name was inappropriate.
I just checked Governor Bradford's Journal, and he called them "Indeans". But what
should he have called them? There were many tribes with different names, and they
probably used no collective term. They were "indigenes"
indigene
n.
5Fr indig\ne < L indigena < OL indu (L in), in + gignere, to be born: see GENUS6 a native or indigenous person, animal, or plant Also in4di[gen 73j!n8

Let's hear it for the Indigenes!


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Wondering Wind:

Here's the clause:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I have always assumed that it means the fourteen years immediately preceding the person's accession to the Presidency.

Residency is probably construed to mean having a place to call home. The last President who spent much time outside the country prior to being elected would have been Ike, who spent several years outside the US between 1942 and 1945, but I'm sure he maintained a residence and presumably voter registration during the period. He owned a big old farm outside Gettysburg, which I think he'd had for twenty or thirty years. I would find it very hard to believe that military service outside the US would constitute a break in the continuous 14-year period. If that were the case, a President could ruin the prospect of potential military rivals by shipping them off to Timbuktu.

Hoover spent quite a bit of time outside the US prior to his presidency, but I'd be willing to bet he maintained a residence. In his case, though, the absence from the country would have been on his own volition, so he would have come closer to having a problem than would have Eisenhower.

Curiously, had Clinton resided outside the US during the period prior to 1992, he might have come under some scrutiny with respect to this clause. So far as I know Bill and Hillary never owned a house until they bought Carpetbagger-on-Hudson shortly before the 2000 election so if he'd resided overseas there might have been a challenge.

Note also that Madeline Albright, while Secretary of State, was not technically close in line to the Presidency after the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate. Since she was not a natural-born citizen she was ineligible to succeed to the Presidency, so hmmm I guess the Secretary of the Treasury would have been third. The pecking order inside the Cabinet goes by the holder of the oldest Cabinet post, and SecState was the first one created by the Congress in 1789. Either Treasury or Justice would have been next, and without looking it up I'd guess Treasury.

TEd, who has spent a good deal of time wondering about and researching the Constitution



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I arrived late on this thread and didn't post, since most of what I felt was being mirrored by many others. Two recent posts, make me want to add my two cents.
Dear wwh, Thanks very much for that Newman insight. Something that is worthy of a New Year resolution for me for sure!
As for the other, I think that in the main the guys who are offended by this are the ones who were told that they ought to be offended.
Dear FF, That seems like an imperialistic stance. Cant remember who quoted it before, but I think it was Jackie who wrote, 'history is usually recorded by the victors, not by the vanquished'. That statement is very telling. For every person, who feels offended by a particular expression, there is usually valid historical evidence of oppression and or discrimination, most of which is relatively recent and is thus not so easy to forget and move on from. History is not abstract and disembodied; it is made by and of people and so most times, there will also be some direct family record of some such event that serves to further entrench the feeling. Also, even if a lot of things have changed in the last fifty years of the past century, many of the 'reasons', why the problems started in the first place still exist. The mirror of our brave new world still faithfully reflects the colour of one's skin, and cannot change the culture of a people, cannot change the religious sects that one is born into. These very causal factors for much conflict, serve as living memories and insenstive linguistic usage, effortlessly flips open the Pandora. Many wounds relating to race and culture are still raw. In the time frame of history, most of the demands on PC consciousness, are with reference to relatively recent happenings. All it takes, is for us to live and let live, to let cultures and civilisations co-exist and to assimilate as much as we can and not be dismissive of the ones that we dont agree with. Having said that, there is certainly a strong and valid case to be made for the denouncement of eruptions of righteous indignation based on supposed and imagined insult.
Here's to a Great New Year then, and may more kindness, humanity and peace prevail.

Edit: Dear Mr. Eliot, please accept my apologies; returned in a rush to reassure, before I got any foot stamping disapproval for the title, that the only reason it isn't duly registered is because I still haven't figured out how to do the 'circley R' thing.


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the 'circley R' thing.

Mac - OPTION-r

Win - ALT-0174

Note: The 0174 must be entered on the keypad on the right, not the top row numbers.


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1074 0174R ®
®
Hey it works!

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, ®
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;


Thomas Jefferson might well have left off the extra comma. But then some folks like me would read this as a separate condition, meaning that only citizens of the United States who were alive at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution would be eligible to become President.

You all think this sufficient justification to Null and Void the Clinton years?



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In reply to:

PC as it is practiced is an attempt to associate people with beliefs they do not hold, ideas they have not expressed, and actions they have not performed.


I agree with FF here, and it is often done as a pretext for an attack in order to disguise it as a morally-justified retaliation.


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You all think this sufficient justification to Null and Void the Clinton years?

You mean Arkansans aren't part of the United States!? I always thought that was a Mississippi/Arkansas "thing" they had goin'...you mean Alabama is in on it, too!





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As for the other, I think that in the main the guys who are offended by this are the ones who were told that they ought to be offended.



Dear FF, That seems like an imperialistic stance



As I said previously, PC as it is practiced is an attempt to associate people with beliefs they do not hold, ideas they have not expressed, and actions they have not performed.



Also, even if a lot of things have changed in the last fifty years of the past century, many of the 'reasons', why the problems started in the first place still exist.


I don't understand why 'reasons' is quoted above. Entirely agreed. But - in the context of this discussion - this sounds a lot like the starting point of the implicit argument that is often made "People who agree with us are morally correct and those who disagree are morally incorrect and therefore whatever we say must be true and whatever demands we make are justified and correct."



All it takes, is for us to live and let live, to let cultures and civilisations co-exist and to assimilate as much as we can and not be dismissive of the ones that we dont agree with.


That's not really 'all' now is it? Not one thing in my OP was in conflict with this statement and so there must be something else that is a requirement, elsewise my statement would not have been associated with imperialism.


Happy New Year,
k



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Summoned before the Spanish Inquisition in 1541, the painter El Greco was interrogated not because of suspected heresy, witchcraft, or a lapse of faith. The Church officials were offended by the way he painted the wings of angels.

According to the inquisitors, El Greco's angels were in opposition to canon law and the Holy Scriptures: They weren't painted so that the wings represented real angel wings at all. However, unlike other victims of the Inquisition, El Greco was able to successfully defend his actions. He presented his theories of form, purity, and grace so convincingly that the judges acquitted him and set him free. Perhaps under their black cowls, the representatives of the Church harbored an appreciation of art--as long as it wasn't too openly paganistic.

--World of the Odd and Awesome, Charles Berlitz


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