Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#78691 08/23/02 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
I don't think you'll be able to develop a coherent rule to describe when USAns attach an article and when not. I have a vague recollection of having read a piece* about how German? (I think) usages influenced US English and inserted articles in places British English did not. The "going to hospital" and "going to the hospital" distinction was used as an example. And, because we are rather arbitrary in our absorption of language influences, for whatever reason articles were attached to "hospital" but not to "school," so we still say "I am going to school" rather than "I am going to the school" when discussing the concept in general rather than announcing a specific destination.

Perhaps our German speakers can expand on the use of articles.

Oh - and, Wolverine fans like to refer to their school as the University of Michigan, but that use is more attributable to arrogance than German influences.



*heh. At first, I wrote "an article", but that got too confusing.


#78692 08/23/02 07:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
When giving directions I've notice that articles are omitted in the interest of brevity, i.e. cross street at light, turn into ally, park behind house.

Same goes with other directions/instructions, i.e. in cooking we'll most often see "fold flour and sugar into shortening" rather than "fold THE flour and THE sugar into THE shortening."

=======================================================

Never cross the street v. never cross a street.

This is how I see it...The first refers to a specific street (the one in front of the person you are talking to). The second refers to every street.



#78693 08/23/02 08:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Faldage Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Never cross the street v. never cross a street.

This is how I see it...The first refers to a specific street (the one in front of the person you are talking to). The second refers to every street.


Ideally that would be the way it would work, but in practice I think you'll often hear parents saying the former when they are instructing children in elementary safety. At least among USns.


#78694 08/23/02 08:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
I'd tend to agree since these instructions are usually given by panic-sticken parents who have just seen their three-year-old run across the street to fetch an errant ball.

Proper use of articles is the last thing on their minds.


#78695 08/23/02 08:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Faldage Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Proper use of articles is the last thing on their minds.

Except for well thought out, carefully crafted, formal writing, grammar, in general, is not something we spend a lot of time thinking about. Besides, even if a parent is instructing a child on the first day of school, with no panic on the immediate horizon, I would expect to hear, "And remember, Ginette. Don't cross the street until the crossing guard says it's OK."


#78696 08/24/02 10:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
D
addict
Offline
addict
D
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
for whatever reason articles were attached to "hospital" but not to "school,"
Doesn't it depend on why you are going? For example; a child might say, 'I am going to school to learn', a parent might say, 'I am going to the school for parents evening.


#78697 08/24/02 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Faldage Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
'I am going to school to learn'

'I am going to the school for parents evening.


Same with USns.


#78698 08/24/02 11:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Actually, I'm pretty sure she said "traverse jamais la rue sans regarder des deux bords"

So you're right on that score since she said "never cross the street not a (une) street without looking on both sides.

Bit of an aside...
I know I'm dating myself but crossing guards are a pretty recent commodity in Québec - well, recent from some 20 years or so.




#78699 08/25/02 05:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Doesn't it depend on why you are going? For example; a child might say, 'I am going to school to learn', a parent might say, 'I am going to the school for parents evening.

This suggests to me that there is a subject-object relationship proximity issue rather than a possession issue.

If you say "I'm going to hospital", you aren't specifying the hospital, but it is personally proximate - that is, you are associating yourself and the hospital (whichever) in a close relationship.

Same with a child saying "I'm going to school". It is an intimate part of the child's life and therefore the school, again whichever, is personally proximate to the child and the article is dropped.

However, if the child's parent is going to talk to the child's teacher and says "I'm going to the school to talk to x", you have a much lesser degree of personal proximity. The parent only goes there occasionally and so for him/her the object (the school) is more remote.

In lands other than the US, we would say "I'm going to college" - meaning high school - AND/OR "I'm going to university". Again, the personal proximity to the subject seems to determine whether or not the article is dropped. If you were talking about going to some other college or school and said "I'm going to THE college", you would be implying that you are not going there in an "ordinary" sense. The visit you refer to would have some other purpose (than learning).

Another example which I think applies in both US and non-US English is "I'm going to work", meaning "I'm going to my place of employment", not "I am going to perform some form of labour". Let's not get those two confused anyway!

Yet another example is "I'm going to town", although in this case if you said "I'm going to the town" you would cause confusion, and your interlocutor would probably ask which town you actually intended going to. But again, usually, you are referring to the centre of your current town, or if you live in the country you are referring to the nearest town, or at least the one you go to most often.

Again, it all seems to be down to personal proximity to the object in relation to the subject

But of course there will be exceptions to all of these rules, won't there? It is English, after all!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#78700 08/25/02 05:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
"I'm going to THE college" v "I'm going to college"

You analogy holds true for Québec also Cap.


Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 442 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5