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#7740 10/13/00 09:22 AM
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jmh Offline OP
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I think it is time we had a chat about new members. The problem is that there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet and they have all been used a fair few times now (except zed/zee which has only just discovered us). In addition, inevitably, some of the same combinations of words have also found their way back on to the board, at least momentarily.

There are a few issues here:
(i) It is becoming quite difficult to find old threads. This has absolutely nothing to do with the way that some of us fail to stick to the subject and manage to run a conversation across two or more threads, simultaneously - I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing!

(ii) It is entirely possible that someone new to the board may have something new and different to say, so doesn't need to have the existence of an old thread raised in a way which negates their contribution. On the other hand, a bit of friendly banter ....

(ii) Although we are very young (about 7 months old) there is a heck of a lot of hot air out there. A new person would have to spend about two weeks reading through everything to be able to make their first post, let alone their second or third!

(iii) I suppose that one might have expected some of us old addicts to have moved on at some stage, so the collective memory would not be so good. One of the earliest postings by "Charlie" was http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=1&page=25&view=expanded&sb=5
on the 12th March, "It is said a year in Internet life is equivalent to six years in real life." I think he had a point so a period of just over seven months becomes a period of over three years - it certainly feels like that.

I'll fish out the list we once had called "rules of engagement" and re-post it here so that people don't have to wade through the whole thread.

I noticed that there is bit of discussion emerging in other threads about this, so I'll add those postings too, so we don't lose them.


#7741 10/13/00 09:29 AM
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Here's a copy of the "Suggestions" posting from 19th May 2000. We might like to add/remove a few points:


Here are a few ideas.
(i) Everybody has the right to ask a question, no matter how obvious the answer maybe to anyone else.
(ii) It isn't necessary to pick up on people's grammatical, spelling or typing errors unless it is done in order to help re-state the question in a clearer way. (If you want to sent a "by the way, did you notice" e-mail directly to the person so that they can correct/amend the posting - then on your own head be it).
(iii) Some of the questions posed offer people the opportunity to do some pleasurable research and do not require an immediate answer. We cover a large range of time zones so not everyone gets to see the question, so it may be best to hold back on an answer, so as not to spoil it for others. I've seen cryptic answers and clues used to help the discussion along without taking away other people's rights to find out for themselves.
(iv) That said, if you really do want a quick answer, then say so.
(v) Everyone has a an equal voice, so only speak for yourself.
(vi) If a thread has got a long way from its initial discussion it may be best to start a new thread. This makes it easier for newcomers to find their way around.
(vii) The site should allow for discussion of controversial issues. We probably don't want to have an "eighteen certificate" imposed on us, so care should be taken in the kind of language used. Words can inspire or upset people so try to move controversial discussions to a new thread, so that people can choose to opt in or out.
(viii) This "begs the question" how long should a thread be - I have no views on this subject
(ix) If people use lots of complicated words we don't understand, fine, isn't that part of the fun?
(x) It's fine to disagree and people may even be quite rude to each other from time to time but shouldn't need to be offensive.
(xi) I would hate to see anyone driven away from the site because of their race, creed, gender, disability .... but that doesn't mean that those subjects cannot be discussed in an even handed way.
(xii) Some subject like sport are fair game. If people get upset by sex, religion and politics ... we have to have something we can be rude about ...

If this differs from how you see the site I know you will add your comments. Feel free to accept/reject any of the above.

From a mere mortal



#7742 10/13/00 09:40 AM
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Here's a copy of the discussion on the other board, to save you re-posting them.

jmh
(addict)
Thu Oct 12 18:00:37 2000 momentarily
Yes if you have a few hours to spare you could search on the word “momentarily” to find rather clear dividing lines on the subject. I would never use the word "YART".

Myself, I vary from cross to highly amused by the term. It always seems strange to land "for a moment" or stop at a train station "for a moment", it hardly seems worth the effort.

tsuwm
(addict)
Thu Oct 12 18:10:05 2000 Re: momentarily

>I would never use the word "YART".

yes, isn't it gusting how these abstruse acronyms are bandied about by those in the know?

jmh
(addict)
Thu Oct 12 18:19:10 2000 Re: momentarily

>yes, isn't it gusting how these abstruse acronyms are bandied about by those in the know?

Only momentarily, in my experience.

Marty
(journeyman)
Thu Oct 12 20:34:30 2000 Re: momentarily

you could search on the word momentarily to find rather clear dividing lines on the subject. I would never use the word "YART".

Oops, I see what you mean, Jo. I guess it's a perennial problem for bulletin boards like this with new contributors joining constantly. I don't have a solution, I'm afraid. I'll be buggered (excuse the French) if I'm going to search all postings for keywords before I start typing a response, or wade through them all as a one-off familiarization, so I guess we'll all have to just sigh, think YART to ourselves, and be patient.

wsieber
(member)
Fri Oct 13 01:10:53 2000 Re: YART

Having reflected on this problem, which is likely to grow exponentially with the size and age of the Board, only one (radical) solution occurred to me: Make the program delete the posts once they have reached a certain age. This would - however coarsely - simulate the behaviour of human memory..
Since we are interested in contributions from new subscribers, we should not raise the threshold by constant cries of YART. A schoolteacher is also obliged to repeat many things in a yearly rhythm.


Max Quordlepleen
(enthusiast)
Fri Oct 13 01:24:52 2000 Re: YART
Since we are interested in contributions from new subscribers, we should not raise the threshold by constant cries of YART

I agree! One of the appealing things about this Board is its eclecticism, and lack of elitism. Excessive verbal spanking for YARTing could scare off potential contributors. In a private message to someone, I said that Anu reminds me of Charlie from "Charlie's Angels", an unseen benevolence. I wonder if there's any chance that our Charlie could be petitioned for an opinion on YARTing?




#7743 10/13/00 11:00 AM
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From posting on other boards, it seems to me that each board tends to move towards a culture (best word I could think of) that is uniquely its own. Whilst I have no problems with re-hashed topics in general, obvious questions, or a search through eternal threads, if it causes irritation to some, then certainly it is worth discussing. In theory, though, even if we arrive at some sort of consensus, it will only be a conditional one. New people will arrive, and some regulars may leave. As the composition changes, the culture will, too. Apart from Anu, I doubt if any of us have more than the average level of control over the administration of this board. At our worst we could be rude and personally insulting, and thick-skinned trolls and spammers will shrug that off.

I suspect that, because the primary feature of this board appears to be one of discovery (together) rather than contention (to convince the other of your point), we can usually manage to maintain both an intellectually stimulating, yet friendly, environment. This will, however, fail from time to time. Should we berate ourselves about it, or see it as just another of those slings and arrows that we could, perhaps, shrug off?

I admit that my 'tolerant' attitude comes from spending a great deal of time on boards where contention is the name of the game, and without a 'live and let live' approach, I would soon be turned into a quivering, twitching insult machine. Even so, I do not think that we have yet reached the breast-beating stage where we need to re-examine our raison d'etre and conduct.

Just my opinion, though. Perhaps we fear that future newbies may be too sensistive to take a little rough and tumble? What's the opinion of our masses?

cheer

the sunshine warrior


#7744 10/13/00 11:42 AM
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>Perhaps we fear that future newbies may be too sensistive to take a little rough and tumble? <
Certainly not all of them, as we frequently notice. But in a pond, the more the water loses its clarity, the coarser are the fish that survive in it (I did not make this up for the occasion).


#7745 10/13/00 11:48 AM
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>even if we arrive at some sort of consensus, it will only be a conditional one

I don't even mind if we don't reach a consensus. I just think it is worth giving people the opportunity to discuss our modus operandi from time to time. A lot of people have come and gone since our last discussion. This would seem to be as good a time as any as we have no great problems to iron out.


#7746 10/13/00 11:54 AM
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>But in a pond, the more the water loses its clarity

Thnak you for your comments wsieber. I'm off on a maritime adventure (will keep look out for fish on bicycles), so I'll leave you in peace for a few days. I'm sure that this thread will sink or swim, as do all contributions in this particular pond.


#7747 10/13/00 12:25 PM
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this particular pond

Thanks for bringing this up, Jo. I'm sure it's worth checking this now and again (or even from moment to moment). There's always a balance to be struck between the very strong culture a particular forum soon develops, which gives the flavour regular participants rise to as a sign of inclusivity, and the exclusive boundaries it can set for those not yet off their first bicycle stabilisers.

Which I guess is a long way of saying: count me in for not counting anyone out.


#7748 10/13/00 02:37 PM
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It's been pointed out that we share the general characteristics (and foibles) of all electronic boards. However, given that our overriding topic is words (which subject is not going to attract your typical flamer too often), we probably are more apt to be careful about how we use them. Although I am not an "old hand", I can attest that we have occasionally approached the edge of good taste and decorum; but we are fortunate to have a quite a wide diversity of class clowns and disciplinarians. I see no evidence that we need to refer regularly to a prescriptive set of groundrules and checklists. (please excuse the expression, I work regulatorily with the FAA and JAA and am up to *here in groundrules and checklists :)


#7749 10/13/00 07:37 PM
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I am perfectly enamoured with the way the board runs right now. Perhaps, since I am just recently graduated from being a stranger, the shine is still on the apple for me but I cannot find fault with the way things flow.

I enjoy the eclectic mix of members and accept, even revel in the fact, that not everyone is expected to have the same character or opinion (see the whole John Denver debacle ). The fact that some have been around longer than others has not put me off in any way since EVERYBODY welcomes you with open arms. I have not seen one person shunned (posts ignored) since I got here.

For a board dedicated to words it is not stuffily pedantic in any way; and if sometimes we go off on a tangent, well, for those who believe in fate, wasn't that where we were headed anyway…



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