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Hello all,
I'm having some trouble with what (in my opinion) very much resembles the French subjonctif only that it seems to be much less complex. For example:
She demanded that she be acquitted.
Questions are:
- do you English-speaking guys talk like this in real life or is it rather some kind of a formal way of expressing oneself?
- are there any particular verbs which should be followed by the that and a verb formed like in the example?
- or maybe there are some verbs which should never ever be accompanied by this creature, despite the speaker's desire?
Any help/explanation/reference to an explanation would be very welcome!
Thanks,
Lukasz
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Dear Lukaszd: I demand that he be acquitted. By the way, what did he do?
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- do you English-speaking guys talk like this in real life or is it rather some kind of a formal way of expressing oneself?
"I demand that she be acquitted." Yep. That's how that would be expressed in this instance. Not that you couldn't express it differently. For example, "She better be acquitted or you're gonna eat my knuckle sandwich!"
I wouldn't expect to hear, "I demand she is acquitted!" Or "I demand she will be acquitted!" Or "I demand that she is acquitted!" Those would sound wrong, if not downright ungrammatical.
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old hand
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Hi Wordwind,
You mentioned undisputable counterexamples. But I think Lukaszd is still right in his suspicion that the form is rather seldom used in informal talk. But then, "I demand" is also not very frequent nowadays. What about "I ask for her acquittal"?
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She demanded that she be acquitted.Hi Lukas, From a Brit perspective (although I don't necessarily expect too many differences): This construction is certainly used fairly often. It's correct, I think, and thus would always be used in a formal context. But it isn't so formal as to sound weird or stilted in a casual context. If you wanted a more casual (and shorter) form, you'd probably say something like "She demanded her acquittal", but that isn't a very nice construction. Actually I suspect your example sentence is already a shortening of: She demanded that she should be acquitted. which fits better with wishes: She wished that she could be acquitted I wish that I could fly I thought at first there must be loads of similar words, but I've struggled to find 'em... Is this something to do with active and passive constructions ? e.g. I want to acquit him [ACTIVE] I want him to be acquitted [PASSIVE] I want to be acquitted [PASSIVE] She demanded that the mistake be corrected = She demanded correction of the mistake though that's also nouning the verb. I'm getting rapidly lost in the intricacies.  Hope that helps a little bit, anyway! Fisk
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Dear wsieber: To be sure, a lawyer alert to avoid alienating the jurors would not use the word
"demand". But I was impersonating an activist expressi;ng outrage at a potential injustice.
And, if I may be permitted to do so, without pretending to be an authority, I reaffirm that
justice demands that the defendant be acquitted.
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Dear wsieber:
I just meant that if you began a sentence with: "I demand that..." with the following bit of information including that the person in question should be acquitted, that it would not be considered unusual to follow it with "she be acquitted."
Let's say something more ordinary:
I insist that he be informed.
And Fish's alteration works well here: I insist that he should be informed.
I think we hear this type of construction, but I don't demand that it be used. And I don't insist that it be used. And I don't make a motion that it be used. I just think it's used pretty regularly and that there are many other ways to express meaning without using the construction. Such is the flexibility of the language.
Ain't English just grand? And I don't demand that it be limited to a highly restricted group of constructions!
[Beware: If you say something often enough, it will begin to appear to be completely incorrect!]
Best regards,
WW
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[Beware: If you say something often enough, it will begin to appear to be completely incorrect!]
[music]
It ain't necessarily so.
It ain't necessarily so.
Things you are liable to read in the Bible,
It ain't necessarily so. [/music]
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enthusiast
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Hello Lucasz, Although your query provoked quite a few responses, I suspect you might still be looking for answers. Your example, using be in a somewhat unusual way, was an example of the subjunctive mood. (It sounds as if it has something to do with clinical depression, but it doesn't really.) You are correct in linking it with the French subjonctif. This is why we say things like 'far be it from me,' or 'be that as it may,' or 'if this be treason.' This is the present subjunctive. In the past tense it calls for were in place of was--for example: 'if I were you,' or 'if it weren't for that.' Check out this link for details: http://www.alt-usage-english.org/subjunctive_supplement.html
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Thank you slithy, now I know a great deal more and understand even greater deal less  . So be it 
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