|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
NB: It took me over an hour to compose this, going over and over it, trying to be fair, concise (obviously I didn't succeed, damn' thing is very long!), and, ahem, wise. Please, if you are going to read this post, READ IT WITH ACUITY and give it the consideration I gave when I composed it. Please, please don't post any kneejerk reactions. I thought about this for much of today (had to do a lot of driving - had lots of time to think). If it angers or upsets you, I beg you to sleep on it before you respond. Merci bien. Thank you much.
Sometimes I sets and thinks, and sometimes I jes' sets.
Past few days I have been thinking a lot about AWADtalk. I wish I understood a few things about it. If anyone out there would like to provide me with a dispassionate history of the current strife, I would truly love to read it.
Here's all I know: I first came to this board at Anu's suggestion. I emailed him a question about a riddle in Emma and he suggested I try it out on the board - and sure enough, there were plenty of people ready and willing and able to help me with my query. I liked it here so much that I stayed. I made a handful of friends, not only in public but through PMs. One of these people was Keiva.
When I first arrived on the board, I never went into I&A. I couldn't imagine what might be there to interest me. I can't even remember why I decided to look in - but when I did, what strife I found! Here was this fellow Keiva, whom I had thought was quite a nice fellow, being strafed from many directions. I must admit, I wavered. I thought, "If so many people think he's so terrible, maybe I'm wrong and they're right."
Then I kind of woke up to myself. I reminded myself that I don't want, ever, to form other people's opinions of things, people and events. I want to form my own. Keiva hadn't done any wrong that I could see, so I continued "friends" with him and defended him where I thought attacks were unjust.
I was new to the board, unfamiliar with the etiquette here, and perhaps should have held back, but I've always hated perceived injustice. Keep in mind this was my perception.
I realized I didn't have all the information, so I PM'd one of my new friends here and asked how it all began. The answer I received was that someone had, awhile back, posted something slighting about the Holocaust, and Keiva got upset. - When I asked Keiva himself about this in a PM, he never responded to my question, so I'm left in the dark: is that how this all began? Someone else has since told me it originated around September 11, and had to do with comments about that.
Whatever its origins, it sure raised a terrible stink up here in I&A. I couldn't figure it out, because Keiva seemed like such a nice guy.
But then apparently I got linked with Keiva, because I appeared to be on his "side." Suddenly I was drawing flak too. It's pretty horrifying to think that I was deemed guilty by association, but that seems to be what happened. People have even thought I WAS Keiva. Being pounced on and thrashed was not my idea of a good time, so I took off for awhile.
Then I chose the most abysmally incorrect time to return - right after all kinds of old-timers left. Once again, I was seen to be either Keiva, or one of his "acolytes," and only recently have people been giving me the benefit of the doubt (apart from those who were friendly from the start - God bless them forever, they know who they are). I had hoped that people would read my posts, realize where I'm coming from, notice that I'm NOT responding to Keiva, perhaps give me a little more credit for being me, and for being a fellow linguaphile.
I'm NOT responding to Keiva; and that is not because many people here dislike him and would treat me like a pariah once again if I did. I couldn't respect myself if I let other people's prejudice influence my opinion. (I've just been re-reading Pride and Prejudice - what a great reminder of how fallible we all can be and how important it is to be open to correction!)
I am not responding to Keiva because I have formed my own opinion of him. I was not here on the board when he "attacked" Jackie and Anu (and whoever else), so I don't have an opinion of that and won't venture to comment - I really don't have enough information and I suspect no one who was not directly involved, does.
The reason I am not responding to Keiva: When I left the board, a handful of people expressed an interest in staying in touch, and these were people I esteemed and was grateful to for their friendship. Keiva, who had been soooo friendly on the board, was not one of them. Before I left, he told me not to go; he seemed to be relishing the prospect of a fight. That was my first clue, really. (No, I'm not clueless - perhaps a little naive, but that arises from a genuine wish to believe the best of people.) When I left, he dropped out of contact with me; I mentioned this to someone who emailed me in his defence a few times, and said I didn't think he was such a wonderful person as this person was making him out to be. As I'd suspected, I then received an email from him; but then all contact ceased again, and I thought, I've got the measure of you, my lad. I didn't like the feeling I had that I had been used by Keiva to further his fight on the board. I felt I had been rather a pawn and I disliked that intensely. It left a nasty taste in my mouth, especially as I had come under fire from a few directions myself - I felt I had taken a few hits for him, unwillingly, and for what? To piss everybody off, apparently. Well, I hated being caught in the middle - and that, I realize, was at least partly what was going on for me in the pre-Bombshell days. It felt as though Keiva had used me, and I didn't like it.
That said, I'm not so sure I agree with the people posting here who suspect he is mentally ill. I do think he's misguided, occasionally malevolent, manipulative, tenacious, stubborn and insecure. I am quite sure that some of the things that have been said to him and of him are hurting him. These nasty posts remind me of a couple more sayings of my mother's:
1. Two wrongs don't make a right.
2. Don't lower yourself to his level, darling.
IMHO, the people who are slapping and smacking at Keiva are just as responsible for the demise of the board as they knew, as he is. It's very easy to remove Keiva's sting, actually: just ignore him. If you agree with his posts, ignore him. If you disagree with his posts, ignore him. If he starts a thread, ignore it. If you read his threads and posts, you will incense yourselves. I know some of you would argue the mere sight of his name makes you sick. Perhaps, then, you should wait to return, until you won't be nauseated: maybe because Keiva has left, or maybe because Time, the Great Healer, has worked some of his magic, and you can look on a little more dispassionately than you are currently able to do.
I'm also reminded of something a friend in high school used to say about things or people that were spotty at best: "He has his moments." One of the problems I had with being pounced on, before I left the board, was that people seemed to go very black and white, very quickly: it was all or nothing. You were all bad or all good. This person was a saint, that person was the Devil. That distresses me, because I try not to do that in my own life (except when I'm driving - hey, everybody's human!). Keiva has his moments. I know they're hard to see, amid all the brainless yatter and the apparent wilful ignorance of how unwelcome his presence is to some of the people posting here.
Which reminds me of another expression (this one, I think, probably came from my brothers! or a sitcom): Go away and come back nicer.
Perhaps Keiva could go away and come back nicer - have a little self-examination time, ruminate on the whole situation, get in touch with his integrity. Perhaps the old board members who have returned to post nasty things under new handles could go away a bit longer, and then come back nicer.
Ah, I'm probably going to draw all kinds of flak for this, but I wanted to say it. I think this could be a wonderful place. In fact, I think it was showing the germ of a wonderful new beginning - when a bunch of old board members showed up under new handles and started spreading vitriol again. Equalizer, for example, is the absolute bottom (I'm reading Lucy Carmichael now!). Has it occurred to anyone who has leapt in here and started spreading poison again, that some of us were trying to maintain a certain level of positive feeling? and that they are as bad, or worse, than Keiva, for trying to create a shithouse out of something that was struggling back to the sun? What good is all this anger and lashing out going to do anyone? I think that's the main question: where's the good?
Now people are going to jump all over me and tell me I should be asking Keiva that. He can read this post too. I suspect he will. I suspect he won't like it. I suspect a lot of people who might read it (if they get all the way through!) won't like it....What the hell. I come in peace. Just am a little gobsmacked by everything that's been going on. I wish I knew why strafing Keiva has any purpose. All it seems to me to do, is harm the GOOD people here who want to discuss words in a calm, friendly, warm, kindly atmosphere. It just doesn't do to say, "Keiva started it!" That doesn't mean anyone here has to continue it. Another expression: It takes two to tango. Why don't y'all leave him dancing on his own? maybe he'll find it's not much fun, and take a much-encouraged, extended sabbatical. Wouldn't that be sweet?
Bottom line: If you want to post here, boy, you're so welcome to do so POSITIVELY. If you loathe and despise Keiva from the very heart of your bottom, by all means feel entirely free to ignore the hell out of him.
And if you know why this whole sad ridiculous mess began and can provide a potted, IMPARTIAL history, please, o please, post it here.
Final words: I posted this in part because of marylynncorder's excellent contribution, Anyway.
Honesty and frankness will make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Love,
Mary
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Some time ago, when I had decided to quit this board, your forthrightness and honesty convinced me to remain. You have once again shown that part of your makeup. I have never met you, nor spoken by phone with you, yet I deeply admire you. Your handle seems well chosen, as there is something of the divine in your humanity. May you never lose it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275 |
Do I dare and be labelled an acolyte? Yes!!!! to you MG and to you Geoff. Thank you MG for taking the time (it is so precious) to say what is on your mind. I am looking very hard to find that time to do the same.
I envy your stamina.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
I really do hope you mean it.
Blessings.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148 |
Thank you Thank you Thank you ! MG, my sincere thanks for posting a note of reasonableness. Being new, I was totally bewildered when the Keiva bashing started... maybe he did some dumb stuff back in the Dark Ages (ie before my advent  ), but everyone else sure isn't making this a nice place to be... Anyway, thanks alexis Edit: I realise this may have come across too harshly - I am very aware that a lot of people are very hurt, and I'm certainly not saying anything dismissive about that. I'd also like it to be clear that I am not taking sides.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
Sorry to post kind of a nothing post here, but I just don't have the compuker skills to make my thread jump to the top o' the list again in any other way. (I've seen that it CAN be done but never figured out how to do it.)
And I wanna be on top again, dammit. Glad to see so many "old" members back; sorry Keiva hasn't got the hint yet; sorry so many "old" members are even responding to him. I still think if we left him to dance on his own, he'd eventually get bored.
Or maybe we could ask Anu about an "ignore" feature? I wonder if it would be possible to install one. (Wait - instal or install? how many l's? or is this another spelling conundrum that depends on which side of the pond you're on - whichever pond!) (just checked my Cdn Oxford, which gives both - but the two-l version first)
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<instal or install?>>
Just stall I think; even just back half of a stall would seem to suffice, often enough. Methinks. Lately.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
A very thoughtful and reasonable posting, MG. I must confess that I had my doubts about you when you were trying to defend the indefensible, but your explanation is well put and I give you the benefit of the doubt.
Your suggestion that K can be neutralized, isolated or simply dodged is a perfectly good one. I made it myself in one way or another more than once during the great battle. But eventually I came to see that it's not enough. You just can't ignore the wretch; he keeps obtruding himself. You can refuse to read any posting he makes (as I have done for a long time) but it's hard to dodge a posting of his in the middle of someone else's thread. That, and the disgust I feel at what he has done to the board, caused me to stay away. I do look in now and then (mainly to see if he's gone yet) and this is the first time I have posted for a good while.
The other great problem is that we can't quite bring ourselves, yet, to dismiss all that rancor and taking sides and get back to discussing words and languages. A newcomer would think we have a wierd and unhealthy fixation on old wounds. But we (by that I mean all the real AWAD fans to whom this forum means so much) are still in the process of grieving, like someone who has lost his best friend. And unfortunately, I don't think many of us will ever get over it as long as K is still here, haunting us and reviving the feelings of grief and loss. But I keep hoping. I'm not sure that it's much good to hope he'll leave. He did leave once before, but he came back, worse than ever. But AWAD is not now what it was, so maybe there is hope he'll have his fill and depart. Or maybe he'll be committed to an institution where he can get the help he needs. (If you don't think he has a real problem, what do you make of his posting about death threats?)
It's my hope, and that of the other exiles, that AWADTalk can again be, to some degree, what it was; but this requires K either gets out or gets banned, or somehow gets out of our hair. When that happens, we'll come back gladly.
Meantime, cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
|
OP
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184 |
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,315
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
247
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
