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In a review of a book about salt in New Scientist, it says that "Gaul" is derived from Greek "hal".
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And the connection to salt is...? I can't answer the question, if question there is; however, this http:// http://www.giveshare.org/israel/french/chapter6.html is a truly weird site -I give it little credence. The only other comment I have to make, broadly on this topic, is that calling someone "Welsh" is a term of abuse, or was originally meant to be, since it means barbarian =] alexis
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> truly weird site
mmm, indeed - that only-on-the-web mixture of warped scholarship and a complete crock of shite :)
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And the connection to salt is...?I would guess that the root hal- being the root of halite was the connection. Here, BTW, is the cleaned up and working version of alexis's link: http://www.giveshare.org/israel/french/chapter6.htmlI haven't looked at it, so I give it less of a good review than does alexis.
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Oh-- next month I am going to a book club discussion of the book on salt. it will be a 2 hour discussion, with the author, (and of course a book signing..)
Next week's book club meeting (one a month) is with Michael Pollan (who's name came up in a thread about apt names ~the spelling of that words eludes me right now), on his book Botany of Desire-- Local musuem sponsers the bookclub.
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calling someone "Welsh" is a term of
abuse, or was originally meant to be, since it means barbarian =]
So, the ancient Welsh had beards? (Latin barberi = bearded ones) That's why I was shocked to see Russell Crowe wearing a beard in the movie, Gladiator. They would have thrown him to the lions for that!
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mmm, indeed - that only-on-the-web mixture of warped scholarship and a complete crock of shite :)However, if it were true it would explain an awful lot about the Welsh. Not to mention the Irish! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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So, the ancient Welsh had beards?Or spoke in a language incomprehensible to the Greeks, sounding like nothing so much as "Bar bar bar" as other notions as to the origin of the word barbarian would have it. The beard went in and out of fashion among the Romans (as presumably among the Greeks) as it does among modern cultures. Marcus Aurelius, Commodus' daddy and Maximus' fave emperor, is generally depicted wearing one his own se'f. http://www.pantheism.net/images/marcusa.jpg
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Ms. de Troy: You're going to a book club discussion of Botany of Desire with Michael Pollan himself?! Cool?!
I'm reading the book right now, and it's really great, Very interesting, vastly easier to read than much of non-fiction, and full of all kinds of cool little historical and scientific factoids. I love the whole debunking (forgive the loaded term here) of the legend of Johnny Appleseed - turns out he was planting seeds to grow apple trees to make applejack liquor, and that's why he was so popular.
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The site of the link above contains more links, one of which yielded this bit of history:
The grand designs of Philip II
of Spain came undone through the Dutch Revolt at the end of the 16th Century; one of the keys,
according to Montesquieu, was the successful Dutch blockade of Iberian saltworks which led directly to
Spanish bankruptcy.
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A cause of the French Revolution I never heard of before: The gabelle, a salt tax: it is in my cictionary.
France has always been a
major producer of salt and any discussion of saltmaking in France includes discussion of the gabelle, the
salt tax which was a significant cause of the French Revolution ( 1 2 ), but salt remains important
today. The magnitude of the gabelle is mind-boggling; from 1630 to 1710, the tax increased tenfold
from 14 times the cost of production to 140 times the cost of production, according to Pierre Laszlo in
his book Salt: Grain of Life (Columbia Univ. Press).
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An archive of fascinating facts such as this one— "The word for 'salt' apparently originates from the
name of the town Es-Salt, once the capital of the east bank of the Jordan, and probably older than
Jericho itself, and close to the Dead Sea."
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item from history: Because so much salted meat was eaten, eight pints of beer a day were needed. And Sweden imported large amount of hops, because it greatly improved keeping qualities of beer.
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Yep. And ribght down the road from Bat Teree
TEd
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Commercial break with truly mind-ringing jingling:
No salt salts like Morton Salt salts!
Beeboppin' regards,
WW
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Dear TEd & WW: Your posts do you great credit.
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My father told the story about Dickie 1 of England, who was the first recipient on an organ transplant, a heart given to him cross-species from a lion, hence his nickname. Someone asked him if he ever felt any pain. He replied, "No, it never pains, but it roars."
TEd
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Ted, if you just thought of that off the top o' your head, you're in a class almost by yourself. Are you one of the panelists on "My Word" by any chance?
Best regards,
WordWaster by comparison
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I suspect phrases like that just jump out all the time, from the hop of his TEd...
Ribght?
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WW:
A great many of them do come off the top of my head, but many more of them are carefully stacked in what I hope is an almost endless memory bank. I have a very good ear for words and a good eye for absurdity. And sometimes even a halfway-decent sense of humor. I also remember things like this for decades. I have almost total recall for jokes and puns when I am provided with a stimulus. In this case it was Morton salt, who knows what it will be next.
I'd be willing to bet that something reminds me of a joke at least 25 times a day. Most often in a situation where I can't tell it, but at least I amuse myself!
There's apparently an hereditary factor at work. My father was the source of many of my jokes, including the Morton salt one. And two weeks ago I was sitting in the hot tub with the kids, teaching them to sing,
When the moon hits the sky
Like a big pizza pie,
That's amore.
Sasha (just turned four) laughed and said, "No, Daddy, when the moon hits the sky like a big pizza pie, tha's a more B."
In addition to my father, the other person in my life who gets a large amount of credit (some might say blame) for the development of my sense of humor is Bennett Cerf. That man collected jokes the way some people collect pennies. And a hell of a lot of them were puns.
I revel, as do all punsters, in the quick one-liner that comes almost unbidden to the lips, but I also like and have a lot of fun with shaggy dog stories. I actually have enough of them to put together a book, which I keep threatening to do. I can also tell them pretty well, also. Like my daughter, shy I am not.
TEd
PS
What is "My Word"?
T.
TEd
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You're lucky, Ted, that you remember jokes and puns. I hardly ever remember a single joke.
"My Word" is a BBC radio quiz game I used to listen to when I used to listen to NPR before I went cold-turkey and stopped listening to the radio at all because my theshold for hearing anything at all painful was extremely lowered after the 11th. "My Word" was great fun. Sometimes the panelists would trace the origins of famous sayings, and their stories were full of clever puns for which they were awarded points. Your stories are right up there in their league.
Best regards,
WorldWeary
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your word is most obviously paronomasiac-- you most definately are one!
and i couldn't remember it, but i could find it in my funny little book of words that i unearthed.. because it had a punny picture.. about cadillacs, i mean Cattle Acts.. which i am sure you'll be able to explain to everyone here!
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Maybe someone here can I confirm or deny a long-standing suspicion I've had [yes, I've been too lazy to work it out myself]: is the word salary related to the word salt ? I've heard that Roman soldiers used to get paid partially in salt, because it was a valuable commodity.
alexis
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confirm
yes.
AWAD: GOOGLE!
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I was wondering when this would come up. The Cattle Acts are a direct result of Wyoming's being the first state to enfranchise women.
How's that? you ask. Quite simple, really. The women of Wyoming became incensed that their men were spending so much time herding sheep, which meant they weren't spending time "herding" women.
So they got together, piled into their Ramblers, and passed the Cattle Acts. These acts authorized leasing Wyoming open range to cattle ranchers at a ratio of five to one over sheep; their hope was to wean their men from there sheep habits. Didn't work though. My great-uncle Tate made a fortune selling footstools to cattle ranchers.
Then he blew his entire fortune. He invented and spent a fortune marketing a new kind of compass, called Tate's Patent Compass, but it never worked properly. Hence the phrase, he who has a Tate's is lost.
TEd
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Cattle acts? That's bull! My uncle Ebenezer used to live in Denver, where he made stretch limos from Lincolns. He didn't make his fortune selling the cars, but by selling tickets to watch him cutting the cars in half in order to install an extra center section. People loved to come to see the Continental divide. He later moved to Utah and opened a Rambler dealership, Ogden Nash.
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Sir:
This is to inform you that you will be receiving a summons to small claims court, where I am sueing you for the damages to my keyboard caused by snorting coffee out through my nose.
Sincerely
Plain Tiff
TEd
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where I am sueing you for the damages to my keyboard
Boy, you've named him for sue?
Wow.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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the word salary related to the word salt
And by the same token, to the phrase worth his salt.
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Plain TiffSir, I disagree with the premise of your suit, since any tiff you and I might have would not, by our very natures, be plain. You reside in or near the Rocky Mountains, not the plains. Respectfully submitted, Your Humble Servant, Titfor Tat PS: Here's a napkin - 
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We don't want any Tiffs on the board. Tiffs could lead to another flame war.
And dear Geoff, to show class, offer him a serviette.
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to show class, offer him a serviette.
Pourquoi? Est-ce-qu'il est Francais? I shall offer him a freshly laundered, sterilized napkin, and hope that we may avoid litigation. Hmmm... Litigate? Wasn't that a lawyer's scandal? BTW, weren't we talking about salt? Is the originator of this thread beating her head against the wall and sobbing by now?
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Oops, sorry, Dr. Bill, I thought Alexis started this thread. Ignore the previous post, please.
Now, speaking of salt, anybody want a first edition copy of Thomas Costain's novel, Below the Salt? I got one. Too darned many books!
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Dear Geoff: that business about "below the salt" bothers me. The fancy salt that the rich may have had still wasn't expensive enough to warrant insulting any guest . I wonder if it may not have been at least partly related to question of nowasheenuffy hands of guests on social lowerarchy since salt was probably in a cellar, and taken out by fingers.
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Dr bill, about being insulted (by being seated below the salt)- maybe, but maybe not.
i am a sponsering member of a local museum (ie, i give them a pot of money) they, in return, invite me to some some of the posh events at the museum, and frequently ask me for more money.
as some of the events, there are special (hidden) goings ons,(--very discrete, but still going on). do i feel insulted that i am not part of them? Nah. i give a pot of money cause i really like the museum, and what it does. and once in a while, i get to rub shoulders with the upper crust of NY society.
should i want, i could do more.. why last year, they invited me to the fall gala, a dinner dance. i could have come with date, (only $1000 per person!) or i could have bought a whole table for 10 of my nearest and dearest, for $10,000, or fancier tables for up to $50,000 (still just 10 guests)To bad you all don't live in NY-- i might have invited you!
do you think that the floral displays are the same on each table? or do you think they are different? and how much time does the president of the museum spend at the $10,000 table? and at the $50,000 table?
i never feel slighted at these functions, and yet, i am aware, there are goings on i am not privy too, and important people i never meet.
i think is fun and privledge, to be part, even at a distance,of the goings on.
Should, Queen Elizabeth, or Queen Betrice of the Netherlands, or any other monarch of the day invite me to a state dinner, and seat me below the salt, i would also feel privledged.
i know my place.. class is not the same here as in England, but we all know, $50,000 donors are treated differently than $500 donors.
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TEd says to geoff "[Y]ou will be receiving a summons to small claims court, where I am sueing you for the damages to my keyboard caused by snorting coffee out through my nose."
TEd, do you really wish to establish a precedent that puns are actionable?
And by the way, anything that came from my nose would not be a matter for "small" claims court. [batten down the hatches, Maude; there's a hurricane a-comin' thru]
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< at some of the events, there are special (hidden) goings ons,(--very discrete, but still going on). do i feel insulted that i am not part of them? Nah. I agree completely, o launcher of thousands, it's no worse than all that white writing that I can't read (sobbing into his Sunday chardonnay). lusy 
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it's no worse than all that white writing that I can't read
I can't read it either, thus the need to left click on it and drag the cursor across it so it shows up with contrast. Drat this presbyopia!
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Salt is still a very important economic item. The Jordanians have a big project isolating salt and other compounds from the Dead Sea. They get large amounts of potassiumsalts for fertilizer, and magnesium compounds for wallboard. A couple years ago Mitsubishi had plans to put a huge plant on east side of Gulf of California to make salt from seawater. There was overwhelming opposition to it on grounds it could adversely affect whale population there.
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A couple years ago Mitsubishi had plans to put a huge plant on east side of Gulf of California to make salt from seawater. There was overwhelming opposition to it on grounds it could adversely affect whale population there.
Why? Would it throw them out of work?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Why? Would it throw them out of work?
It was going to be built on a lagoon that is one of the very few calving grounds the gray whales have, and would have wreaked havoc with the salinity levels in the lagoon. A similar plant, also in Baja California, has been shown to zap sea turtles, mostly by periodically discharging hypersaline water, which their systems can't handle.
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