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you could just survey the source the kids are exposed to..
what is the vocabulary of "sesame street"? or Mr Rogers? compared to "scoobie doo"? how much time does the kid spend watching sesame street, how much time does the kid spend watching scoobie doo?
and just watch the parents.. invite them in for a paid study, tell them they might have to wait a few hours, but will have a place for kids to play and will get free lunch.
only the real study is the wait time.. how do they use it? do they talk and play with their kids? pick up available books and read? or do they generaly let the kids play by them selves, and not talk or interact with them?
if they kid picks up a truck, and says truck! does momma say Oh yes, a big yellow dump truck! (and teach big, yellow and dump?) or does momma say "Yes, a truck!" (a positive response, but not one that is vocabulary building-- remember these are basicly good mothers, good people)
at lunch does mommy say "eat your Tuna salad, you like tuna salad!"? (a positive statement) to define the sandwiches? or does she say "Yummy, tuna, with celery, and onions and pickles, with creamy mayonaise! Oh tuna salad is my favorite sandwich.." (a detailed, word rich response)?
no mother is perfect-- and many times my mother had a rich detailed vocabulary.. but sometimes "what's for dinner?" was answered with "food!"-- but in the course of three of four hours, you might see a big difference in quantity of words, and quality of vocabulary.
and if i can think of something like this, with very little background in sociology-- i bet there are even better ways.. and that the studies have been done.
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However they figure this and whatever the real numbers are, I think the ratio is believable. These numbers are inexcusable on the part of the parents. I wonder whether there is a difference between the general case of children born in poverty and those born in places like DC where there are plenty of people in poverty, but also free access to a plethora of educational opportunities perhaps lacking in other parts of the country.
I don't think reading to a kid alone is sufficient to eliminate the gap, but it would almost certainly shorten it. I recall hearing on npr a few years back that the trait most common in national merit semi-finalists was that they came from families where people sit down at dinner and talk. (Something like that.) Something indicating frequent opportunities for two-way communication between adults and children.
k
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there is something very destructive about modern urban poverty. a study done in rural (mexico? central america?) with poor, but rural people found, parents talked very little to children under the age of two-- (but they talked in general. they just didn't converse with their babies)
once a baby had survived to the age of two, the parents be come much more affectionate, and interacted directly with the child (so many childeren died in infantcy, it was considered illogical to get to involved with a newborn.. young mother did it, but after they lost a child or two, they too, settled down to cultural norm)
and while there was poverty, (or certainly a lack of material goods and cash) families hunted, farmed, foraged, and bartered for food... and while the mothers didn't read to the kids, they did often tell them superstitions (like drop a spoon, and you'll have visitors.) and cosmic stories too, about the stars and the moons, and the kids thrived.. some who moved to decent urban environments (family intact, with reliable resourses,) and sent their kids to school, they kids did fine in school
its not reading (but reading is good!) it is talking, and communicating -- teaching folk lore-- (if not the alphabet), its being around people who see a future. and who have a connection to a past.. a heritage. that makes a big difference.
urban poverty --robs people of a view of the future. the poverty becomes a poverty of spirit, not just of resources.
kids in some countries are still taught the Koran orally, and when they finally get to see it.. its not hard for them to 'learn to read' it. or to read anything.. the mind might be primed for language.. but priming it to learn to read requires learning skillful use of language. (all most every kid learns to walk.. some people become track stars, or marathon runners. )everyone learns to talk.. but skillful use of language.. and reading is an advanced skill requires special effort..
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Sorry (well, no I'm not, really), but I disagree with the proximate cause being put forward. Poverty has damn all to do with it. Ignorance has everything to do with it. In Zild there have been an awful lot of dirt-poor families whose children have turned out to be extremely articulate. I'm certain that this is the case everywhere else, too. In as much as poverty may have led to poor parental education, well, perhaps. But at the end of the day poor people aren't necessarily ignorant, and wealthier people aren't necessarily smarter or even better educated. Children's vocabulary will surely be a reflection of their parents' knowledge, not their wealth.
Not that I want to contradict Newsweek, that well-known vehicle for eddicational research, or nuffink.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Dear CK: The grouping of kids by family income was result of where the studies were carried out. There would not have been an easy way to get homogeneous groups. There are ghettos that provide groups, and middle class communities that provide groups.
Who could have been poorer than Abraham Lincoln? Amazing what motivation can make possible.
I still question the validity of those 40,000 word vocabulary estimates. (guess-timates)
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I don't think it is just poverty.. but i do think there is urban poverty that involves poverty of spirit, not just of cash. Can one have poverty of spirit and be middle class? sure.. one can have a poverty of spirit and be rich.. but to being poor, taxes all of ones resourses.. and eventually, it takes a toll..
everyone gets blue sometimes.. some of us get serious depressed sometimes.. and if we are lucky, we have a support group of friends and family (and doctors and medications) that help us get past the bad patches. but many studies have shown, the poorer you are (financially) the longer your depressions is likely to last... and the less likely you are to get it treated (or even recognized).
one study done in NY with impoverishd families didn't give them any new money.. but it required adults to come 2 or 3 times a week to counciling sesions. some were group, some where one on one.. some particapants ended up getting prescription anti depressants..
one year later, all of the families involved were earning more income.. so which comes first? depression? or poverty? and how do you break the cycle?
and how good are depressed adults as teachers to young children?
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I just got an e-mail from a very bright guy who for reasons unknown to me is reluctant to post in AWADtalk.
I am posting it because I think it has valuable information. I hope he will not resent my doing so without asking his permission.
William Dwight Whitney, The Life And Growth Of Language:
...but thirty thousand is a very large estimate for the number [of words] ever used in writing or speaking, by a well-educated
man; three to five thousand, it has been carefully estimated, cover the ordinary needs of cultivated intercourse; and the number
acquired by persons of lowest training and narrowest information is considerably less than this...
I'd suggest that the capabilities of a "well-educated" man of 1875 were roughly equivalent to those of a "well-educated" man of
2002 regardless of how much the number of available words to learn has changed or not changed. I'd further suggest that the
educational authorities have found ways, over the last several decades, to exaggerate, especially to inflate, just about every
statistic they've ever provided, i.e. of troy's treatment.
Whitney was a Professor of Sanskrit and Comparative Philology, Yale College.
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troy:
I guess I'm leaning towards CK's view, but I'm not averse to programs, etc, that encourage people to do the right thing wrt their children. I dunno, tax rebates for people near and below the poverty level who take their kids to the museum 12 times a year or volunteer at their school 12 times a year? Extended funding to head start? Intensive propaganda, er uh, public awareness campaign (similar to the anti-smoking stuff going on right now) to make parents understand that they have the ability and responsibility to talk to their kids.
ck:
I recall (as usually it's a vague recollection and I could have misremembered the facts) but I think I recall a discussion on npr a while back about a group of intellectuals that grew up in war ravaged europe just after wwii. They did not have proper schools, paper, books, or much of anything else. But apparently they grew into a group of great intellectuals. (I can't for the life of me recall who these guys were.)
bill:
I'm a wealth of unsubstantiated rumor today. Regarding your friend's comments, I recall an interview E.R. Braithewaite gave concerning students at Howard university where he referred to the misfortunte of students with vocabularies of like 300 (or maybe it was 3000) words. I remember wondering if that was hyperbole.
It strikes me that the word vocabulary is ambiguous and I've heard the term "functional vocabulary." There are words that people have seen or can figure out and there are words that people know and use with ease. It could be that the difference in counts could reflect a difference in understanding of what is meant by "vocabulary."
k
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At least the main thrust of the article seems valid, that teaching of sounds and words should be begun very early.
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The two women in charge of the local head start said that the first letter learned by most children they encounter is M, thanks to McDonalds. I could see next would come K, for Kmart. Literacy through commercialism.
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