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well, let me add a bit more... 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 16 greatgrand, 32, 64, --5 genrations..about 100 years.for 5 generation, 1000, 50- and 2 to the 50th? the total is more people than have ever lived! so go back an othe 500 to 1000 years... and we are at 2 to the 100! (and i think 20 years to a generation is reasonable.)It way to many people! so what is the answer?
one answer is cousins often in the past married cousins (even Darwin who knew better married a first cousin...) and not every one left decendants.. some lines have died out.. but still...
and as the slippered feet were going down to the servant quarters, the hob nailed boots where going up to m' ladies chambers.. and there was war, and crusades, and pilgramages, there were shipwrecks, abductions, rapes, and run aways, traveling sales men, and bride (especially royal brides) from far away countries... the gene pools did mix up!
it is a well documented fact that every US president can trace his liniage to english royal family.. (reagan went back to Edward 1st.) even daniel boone, a frontiers man (ie, one of the wild scotch irish) found himself with a bit of the royal family tree..
huge chunks of Appalichia go back to the Stewarts, (radcliffe is the family name, in many varients, ratcliff, redcleff, radceft,etc.,) all going back to Jenny Radcliffe, daughter to the last earl of Derwentwater, James (also the last man beheaded in the tower of London)--who had almost a dozen kids.. and 40 grandchildren when she died.. go to the library.. read the article!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yeahbut®, the Mongols and Chinese were arch enemies for centuries (see the Great wall of China) and rarely mixed it up amicably, so there goes your Confucious theory. Not to mention the Slavic peoples (who always seemed to get overlooked) who are hardly descended from Charlemagne or Muhammed. There is a touch of Asian there (mostly in the Russian Slavs) from the ancient Mongol hordes (mostly courtesy of Attila), which also brings us to the Hungarian Magyars who were their own unique blend of Slav and Mongol (and some say Arab-Persian) for several centuries.
And as far as the Top 100 omissions, I have to put Carl Jung there in lieu of many. This man empirically connected the emotional and physical with the spiritual; connected the collective psyche and the great myths of humanity with the individual consciousness; took Freud's work as the distant seed for his own work in exploring human consciousness, opening doors to perception never before realized. I believe it will take centuries before the magnitude and consequence of this man's work is fully realized and appreciated. Look to his work with mandalas; dreams; he introduced Anima/Animus and Introvert/Extrovert, the Archetype, the Collective Unconscious; and his Theory of Synchronicity is credited with empirically proving the existence of miracles, for god's sake! Does Carl Jung not belong on this list in lieu of at least a dozen others that are there! My humble apologies to Dr. Jung for this gross oversight! If you haven't read Jung, do it!
Be in the world, but not of it.
The shoe that fits one person pinches another; there is no recipe for living that suits all cases.
"...sooner or later nuclear physics and the psychology of the unconscious will draw closer together as both of them, independently of one another and from opposite directions, push forward into transcendental territory..."
--all quotes C.J.Jung
Many believe the third quote was where he was heading as the culmination of all his work, and had he lived just ten more years (he lived to a vigorous 90) he would have made that ultimate connection!
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enthusiast
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Yours resignedly,
Max Canutepleen
The Dutch boy with his finger in the dike. One admires, Max.
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No, Max..."your" in the general sense of the word, not the specific...I was agreeing with your post. Might be a regionalism, but I've always used "your" interchangeably with "the" for emphasis as in "so there goes your winner" or "there goes your theory", usually in association with a discrediting. In this context the 'winner' in the expression doesn't make it but was supposed to.
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I'd gladly subscribe to the theory that all of mankind can be traced back to the survivors of the deluge, it's pretty widely acknowledged that civilization began in this area.The Lost Continent Of Mu
In 1868, Colonel James Churchward, who was then a serving officer in the British Army in India, befriended the high priest of an Indian temple, who showed him several sets of ancient, inscribed clay tablets which had lain concealed in the temple vaults for many centuries, unread and neglected by most of the temple priests down the ages.
With the aid of his new-found friend, Churchward learned how to decipher the ancient Naacal tablet inscriptions. As Churchward translated them, and grasped vast fund of information they contained, he realized that he had stumbled upon the amazing history of a long-lost continent which had been the first great civilization on the Earth. They told of a huge civilization that had arisen, flourished and decayed long before any of those known to modern scholars! It was the great continent of Mu, the Motherland of all the races of the Earth!
For long years, Churchward followed the trail of this mysterious new civilization to the far ends of the earth, piecing together the many parts of a vast jigsaw. Then, as he steadily acquired more and more pieces of information and carefully fitted them into place,.a marvellous picture began to form. A stunning picture of a vast, lost Pacific continent and its original inhabitants gradually came together. The final result of Churward’s immense labour was his amazing book: “The Lost Continent of Mu”.
Sadly, after its first publication in 1926, Churchward’s book attracted a lot of ridicule and criticism from the archaeological scholars of his day, and very few of them took his findings and theories seriously. It was regarded more as wild fiction than a serious scientific study. But today fortunately, we live in a less narrow-minded society, and many such monumental works as Churchward’s are being taken considerably more seriously, as outmoded old dogmas are being overturned by the new findings of more enlightened scientific researchers. Of course, that isn’t to say that we need necessarily subscribe entirely to his idea of Mu being one huge mid-Pacific continent, since, like the idea of Atlantis being a huge mid-Atlantic continent, it can’t be supported by the findings of modern submarine exploration and geological investigation.
However, from my own study of bathymetric maps and charts of the Pacific ocean floor, there does seem to be reasonable geological support for there having once been a number of large and long islands forming a series of ridges across the Pacific, which could have become submerged through tectonic activity into the ocean floor of the Pacific. It is known to be a highly unstable region, surrounded by the so-called “Ring of Fire” of volcanoes, and earthquake-prone regions where tectonic plates rub against each other, and the Pacific ocean-bed is dotted with chains of sea-mounts, many of which are volcanic, as well as deep cracks and rifts known as “trenches”. Also, churchward’s concept of underground “Gas-Chambers” collapsing or imploding in upon themselves after losing their supporting internal gas pressure sounds entirely feasible to me.
It’s not unreasonable, therefore, to place a certain degree of credence in Churchward’s assertion that there has been a great amount of rising and sinking in such an unstable sea-bed, and that, in the fairly recent geological past, many of the current island-chains could have stood much higher above sea-level, to form continuous mountainous ridges stretching across a good deal of the western half, if not two-thirds, of the Pacific. As mentioned, I’ve taken the trouble (as any reader should) to closely study the latest depictions of the Pacific Ocean bed as it would appear without water, and I find that there is certainly an entirely plausible case to made for the various island-chains having once actually been continuous, above-water ridges of dry land stretching for anything between a thousand miles to two thousand miles in length! The Midway and Hawaiian Island group in the North Pacific, that form the undersea Hawaiian Ridge, is a typical example of what I mean. They would have formed a connection to the Line Island Ridge via the Mid-Pacific Ridge, and thus down to other ridges of contiguous island-chains in the South Pacific.
Following this line of thought, one can easily see how there could very well have been an interconnected or easily-reached group of land-ridges extending all the way from Japan and the East Indies, right across to Pitcairn Island, or even Easter Island, in the south, the Marquesas nearer the equator, and Hawaii itself in the north. Nor should we ignore the submerged South Eastern Pacific Plateau in this consideration, which runs almost north-north-east, toward the west coast of Central America, in the midst of which we find Easter Island. From there, it’s only a distance of under two thousand miles or so to the Peruvian coastline. This would have been a comfortable sail for such an empire of seafarers as the people of Mu must surely have been, according to Churchward’s theory!
However, apart from this leaning of Churchward toward the need for a huge super-continent to occupy a good half the Pacific Ocean area, I personally find his general basic theory quite intriguing, especially since it fits in well with so many other strange anomalies regarding the origins and movements of various ancient peoples - including both the Atlanteans and the Naacal Ramans, besides the three principal races of humanity. Perhaps if Churchward had only had access to the knowledge we now possess of the geology and topography of the ocean floors, his “continent”-proposition would have been appropriately modified, and might have met with a far better reception than it did from the scholars of his day. However, having hopefully helped his premise become a little more realistic and feasible, I should now define some of the points of interest in his “Mu” concept.
Why Did Churchward Search for Mu?
As we saw previously, the whole thing was triggered off by the old high priest of the Indian college temple, which was obviously a remnant off-shoot of the Holy Brotherhood of the ancient Naacals. Had he not spoken about this amazing 50,000 years old civilization with its 64 million inhabitants to Churchward, Mu might well have completely disappeared from human memory long ago. Instead, having befriended Churchward, and found him to be a seeker after esoteric knowledge, the old high priest eventually allowed Churchward access to the precious tablets which had been loving preserved mostly intact for nearly fifty millennia.
If it hadn’t been a time of great famine in India in 1868, and had Churchward not been assisting in famine relief (courtesy of the British Army), the two would never have met, and the story would never have come to light. Such are the curious twists of fortune and circumstance which direct our destinies! As I said at the outset, once Churchward saw the ancient tablets, he was well and truly hooked, and “Mu” became the driving obsession of his life thereafter. He felt totally compelled to unearth the proof of this amazing story, or die in the attempt!
For two full years, he studied with the old priest, learning how to decipher the bass-relief characters upon the clay tablets, that had been written either in Burma or actually in Mu itself by ancient Naacal priestly scholars. The tablets he studied were, in fact, only a few fragments of what had once been a vast collection, and these had been rescued from one of the old seven Rishi cities which were the centres of learning in the old Rama Empire in ancient India! After many months of intense study of the tablets (including having to repair many that had been broken in packing or transit) Churchward eventually began to crack the code. His efforts were justified when he discovered that they described in detail the creation of the Earth and of the appearance of Man - in the land of Mu! When he realized the enormous significance of his discovery “In the elucidation of that eternal problem” (the origin of mankind and his races), Churchward set off to Burma, armed with introductory letters from the Indian priests, in the fond hope of finding more of the tablets. Sadly, he was rebuffed by the Buddhist priests there, who told him to go back to India and “Ask those thieves who stole them to show them to you!”
Undaunted however, he decided to make a study of the writings of all the ancient civilizations of the old world, to compare them with the legends he had discovered about Mu from the clay tablets. And this he did, only to discover that they were all preceded by the Civilization of Mu.
During his studies, he learned that the “Lost Continent” had extended from north of Hawaii southward as far as Fiji and Easter Island, “and was undoubtedly the original (earthly) habitat of man”. He learned that “this beautiful land of smiling plenty” had produced “the people that colonized the Earth”, and that it had been “obliterated by terrific earthquakes and submersion 12,000 years ago, and had vanished in a vortex of fire and water”! Subsequently, he traced the same story to India, where colonists from Mu had settled: “from India into Egypt; from Egypt to the temple of Sanai (Sinai?), where Moses copied it; and from Moses to the faulty translations of Ezra, 800 years later. The plausibility of this will be apparent even to those who have not studied the subject carefully, when they see the close resemblance between the story of the creation as we know it and the tradition that originated in Mu”. Fpr the complete text of this article, From Mu to Thule, by Jerry Forster click here (it's a WordPad attachment): http://www.onelight.com/forster/mutothule.doc.
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A) Rape is not normally considered "amicable relations". It still produces children, so the lack of amicable relations between Chinese and Mongols is no barrier to cross pollination.
2) Regarding the "arbitrary." selection of these four individuals. I believe they were more likely chosen for their fame than for any other reason. They could as well have chosen Ifituti the slave girl, Wing Fat the rice farmer, Pierre the swine herd and Daoud ibn as-Sakkhrah the waterwheel operator but nobody ever heard of them. They also didn't say that Nefertiti was an ancestor of Confucius (although at just under 1000 years it's not impossible*) any more than they would be saying that your maternal grandmother is a descendant of your father's paternal grandmother, merely that you are a descendant of both.
*With the more conservative figure of four generations per century we have 10 to the 12th slots for ancestors a thousand years ago. Obviously many of these are going to be filled by the same person but it leaves us a lot of room for outsiders.
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old hand
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old hand
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Ok: The Human Diasporas by Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza and Francesco Cavalli-Sforza:
This has a somewhat different and less specific account of the separation of people. Africa split with the rest of the world 100,000 years ago, Southeast Asia and Australia split 55-60,000 years ago, Asia and Europe split 35-40,000 years ago and Northeast Asia and America split 15-35,000 years ago. The closest genetically are the last two, because mutations over time cause genetic difference. (Africans are more genetically diverse than the rest of the world combined because they've been there much longer.) Mutations are an ongoing process, 3-4 letters in the DNA structure change during every cell division. Most of them don't have any effect, though.
This book also talks about an African "Eve". This isn't the woman from the Biblical account, but simply the term for an ambiguously common ancestor. This is based on the study of mitochondrial DNA (mitochondria is passed down from the mother's side), which shows that at some point in history there was a genetic bottleneck, when a small group of people (the first group of genetically modern humans homo sapiens sapiens), all with the same mitochondria as that one "Eve", become the direct ancestors of all people. This event is generally dated at about 190,000 years ago.
Also, the only geologic evidence of any type of great flood is the forming of the Black Sea by receding glacial ice. This happened about 7000 years ago and is clearly the source of the all of the flood stories. Baucis and Philemon is the Greek mythological flood story. This, though, has nothing to do with a genetic bottleneck because it only effected people in the area of the Black Sea (the Fertile Crescent), which just so happened to contain the most influential people in history, pillaging and passing on their stories to every other culture.
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