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#64475 04/08/02 12:35 PM
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from John Bayley's "Iris: a memoir of Iris Murdoch":

[Iris] herself was devoted at that time to the adventures of Tintin, the perky young Belgian 'boy reporter' invented by Herge … I have learnt a lot of French from the Tintin books, mostly idioms now outdated, which we used to repeat to each other on suitable occasions. There was a moment when the villains had hired a diver to go down and attach a limpet mine to the good characters' ship. Just as he is fixing it the anchor happens to be released from up above, banging him on the head and knocking him and his mine down into the depths. 'Fichu metier!' he remarks philosophically into his diving helmet. A comment whose pithiness is as intranslatable as poetry.

Rough translation, anybody?


#64476 04/08/02 12:52 PM
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fichu: damn!
métier: job; occupation

Sounds as if the diver is muttering about what a lousy job he has.


#64477 04/08/02 01:47 PM
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Rough job = Tu fais un fichu métier. ...


#64478 04/08/02 03:26 PM
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Dear Bill,

Thanks for the rough job application. So, if you have to do something disagreeable--say you're sittin' up there on the horns of a dilemma and don't know which way to go--this "rough job" application would work, right?

Best regards,
WordWrestling


#64479 04/08/02 06:09 PM
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Dear WW: I just entered "fichu métier" into Yahoo search box and up came dozens of sentences using it. I couldn't get exact translation, but could get a sort of common denominator.


#64480 04/08/02 08:51 PM
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And why is it, when I look at the word fichu I see an old-fashioned woman with a large white collar? Is there a word that looks like fichu that is an article of clothing?

Best regards,
WordWrecked


#64481 04/08/02 08:56 PM
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fich[u 7fi*41; Fr fc *=$8
n.
5Fr < pp. of ficher, to thrust in, attach < VL *figicare, for L figere, FIX6 a three-cornered lace or muslin cape for women, worn with the ends fastened or crossed in front



#64482 04/08/02 09:05 PM
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Dear Bill,

Well, it's good to know there's still some things floating around in my brain that have their relation to reality. Thanks for your research. Now: what's the connection between the article of clothing and the expletive, I wonder?

Best regards,
DubDub


#64483 04/09/02 01:30 AM
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Dear belMarduk: we need you badly.


#64484 04/09/02 02:43 AM
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Can't sub for Bel, but can tell you of a colloquial French expression: Je m'en fiche. Meaning, more politely, "the hell with it"; less politely, "f..k it."

Then you get creative with this expression. One character in a book I read got so frustrated over a situation he shouted, "Je m'en fiche. Je m'en refiche, et je m'en contrefiche." (The same expression with intensifiers.)


#64485 04/09/02 05:22 AM
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"Je m'en fiche" and "fichu" are toned-down versions of expressions which, at the time referred to, were not allowed in print, analogous to the English f-word. But the real humor is in the very use of those "euphemisms" in a lethal situation.


#64486 04/09/02 01:37 PM
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Dear wsieber: I suspected as much, but could find no confirmation. I found a couple places that gave "damned". A short time ago there was very little I could find about French in Internet. Now Yahoo seems to have hadded a whole bunch of URL. I have also been able to find some German things that simply were not to be found a couple years ago. I still haven't been able to find that bit about Brunhilde squeezing Siegfried's hand so hard the blood gushed out from under his fingernaels. That's a lot of woman. Bill


#64487 04/09/02 01:49 PM
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I found a couple places that gave "damned".

I've been beginning to think that, particularly in the matter of euphemizable expressions, the claim of untranslatibility is more due to the fact that it would sound stupid if translated literally.


#64488 04/09/02 01:59 PM
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It seems that "fichu" would mean "fixed" but that's not much of an expletive A number of the sites mentioned the French scorn of English swearing. They call the Brits "Goddams" because of frequency with which the Lord's name is taken in vain. Incidentally, I have a hazy recollection that "vain" is related to both "wind" and "cursing". I suspect "inveigh" may be in the family.NicholasW, where are you?


#64489 04/09/02 02:00 PM
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it would sound stupid if translated literally.. This is true in many cases, yet the French and the English f-words differ only in their grammatical form (past participle vs. gerund), the meaning being pretty much the same.



#64490 04/09/02 02:08 PM
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Dear Bill,
fichu as an adjective is exclusively used as a mild swearword nowadays (the original meaning playing no rôle at all), sometimes also in verbal form. Given todays level of talk, it sounds almost quaint.


#64491 04/09/02 02:26 PM
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Dear wsieber: no connection to verb "ficher"?


#64492 04/09/02 03:33 PM
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Speaking of French swearing...
I was just thinking about the word 'maudit' (as in maudits Anglais! damn' English ), and wondering if it is a combination of mal + dit. I suppose so - isn't the verb 'maudire'? (bad/evil + to speak)



#64493 04/10/02 05:11 AM
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Maudit corresponds to the Italian maledetto.
Maledire ( evil + to speak) is the opposite of benedire ( good, well + to speak) which means to bless.


#64494 04/10/02 07:37 AM
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no connection to verb "ficher"?
No, because the pp of ficher is fiché. The infinitive of fichu is fichtre which was also used as a swear word, in Corneille's days, if I am right



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"Maudit...Italian maledetto...Maledire...opposite of benedire...

...which all have English equivalents still current, i.e. malediction and benediction.

Peculiar accompaniment: ever heard "malediction" with any other verb than "uttered"? A little like the "rosy-fingered-dawn" always occurring as a single phrase in The Oddessy. I recall that the Greeks even had a word for such concatenations-by-convention (but it never stuck in my head).


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ever heard "malediction" with any other verb than "uttered"?

Kieva always, when in doubt
Pulls Gilbert & Sull'van out:

If he's telling a terrible story
He shall die by a death that is gory.
One of the cruelest of slaughters
That were ever seen in these waters.
And we'll finish his moral affliction
With a very complete malediction
As a compliment valedictory,
If he's telling a terrible story.

--Pirates of Penzance; end of Act I


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Ever see a count how many times "Wine dark sea" appears?


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Hey, the man had to recite it from memory! Give poor Homer a break!

Ever notice how the second book, reciting the various troups who honored troy's walls, reads with all the excitement of a telephone directory?


#64499 04/11/02 03:23 PM
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>It seems that "fichu" would mean "fixed" but that's not much of an expletive

I dunno, Bill. My dog might disagree with that.



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