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#61766 03/20/02 04:56 PM
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So if you're a true believer, then you are an antisceptic?


#61767 03/20/02 05:07 PM
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I had an uncle who didn't believe in war and conflict.
He got drafted with three other like-minded guys and and they all ended up driving a sceptic tank.


#61768 03/20/02 05:09 PM
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Dear tsuwm: my genius is rebuked.:

fourth meaning:
"a seeker after truth; an inquirer who has not yet arrived at definite convictions."


#61769 03/20/02 05:48 PM
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Thanks for the artcle. I've bookmarked it and will check it out later when I have some time.

A related word is "zetetic."

I've been reading Skeptical Inquirer (SI) since about 1980 when a prof introduced it to me. It was such a breath of fresh air - confusing time for me. Nowadays I prefer Skeptic magazine. Oddly, the only reading material that my wife and I have in common is the Skeptic Magazine. I'm surprised she likes it.

I've begun to find SI a bit too harsh, but when I first heard of it, it was such a wonderful thing for me. I felt like I was suffocating, surrounded by people who believed things that for the life of me I couldn't imagine any sane person believing. I was so happy at my good fortune for discovering these people who also found these unbelievable stories just a little TOO unbelievable - and actually were willing to spend a little time to research.

In my hs, we had a "Monsters, Mysteries, and Myths" club. I was the only skeptic and I'm sure the others wondered why I was in it, if I wasn't there. So did I sometimes.

Many years before that, in 8th grade, we were told about an artifact that had been found somewhere - this object that was presented as a battery. Everyone just accepted it and that it could only have been there because aliens gave us the technology. I came up with two alternate ideas: 1) maybe it was actually something else and it just had this ancillary, serendipitous property that it could be used as a battery, and 2) there was a secret society of people who knew things in advance of the rest of society and they had the knowledge that they just gave to us when they thought we were ready or they kept it to maintain control over us. Everyone (including the teacher it seemed to me) thought I was fishing and being completely unreasonable for not accepting the obvious truth - that this was a gift from aliens. Mind you, I didn't say my ideas were right, only that they seemed more reasonable to me than visiting aliens. I mean, if aliens left the technology, how come it wasn't a 20 million volt battery made from some material we wouldn't even be aware of?

About the time I started reading SI, there were some debates going on in the popular press. I like this skeptical stuff because it gives you an alternative. You hear these stories told by the true believers and you think, "yes. given this information, their conclusions must be true." But you always wonder (or *I* always wondered) is that really the way things happened?
SI gave me some extra info I never had before.

So I loved Joe Nickel's "Inquest on the Shroud of Turin." (And I've actually met and talked with him a number of times, listened to him speak, and perform some magic. We were both members of KASES at the time, KY association of scientists and skeptics.) I loved reading Gould's books (though there were parts of them I found irritating - his writing seems a little formulaic to me), and Dawkin's and Sagan's and Asimov's and Hansel's and Gardner's and Randi's (met Randi twice, but didn't get a chance to talk with him) and many others. To me, these books were like a keg of cold beer after a long spell in a dry county. I was dirt poor at the time - I almost dropped out of school and on numerous times I did not buy class books - but I would buy these things hot off the press and I would keep my SI subscription flowing (well, except for a very few times when I just couldn't afford it).

k



#61770 03/20/02 06:42 PM
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Dear tsuwm: my genius is rebuked.:

Rebuked or debunked?



#61771 03/20/02 07:07 PM
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Dear WO'N: I thought I was borrowing from Shakespeare.

1.SCENE I. Forres. The palace.
... Tragedy of Macbeth. Shakespeare homepage | Macbeth | Act ... the palace gate.
MACBETH
Bring them before ... and, under him, My Genius is rebuked; as, it is ...
http://chemicool.com/Shakespeare/macbeth/macbeth.3.1.html


#61772 03/20/02 07:59 PM
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Dear FF: your customary enjoyable post reminded me of an anecdote illustrating occasional merit of skepticism. A father of a girl applying to an Ivy League college among other questions on his part of the application was asked if his daughter had leadership aptitude. He felt compelled to be honest, and answered that while he could not say she had shown leadership aptitude, she was an excellent follower.
Promptly he received an acceptance, with a comment: "Since all of our other applicants have leadership aptitude, it seems quite desirable that we should have at least one good follower."


#61773 03/20/02 08:31 PM
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On filling the need for followers:

hahahahhaahahahaaha (sorry, can't resist)


True story:

I often watch television with my kids (well, not so often recently, but that's only because I'm so busy). The oldest is a little too big to do this now, but when she was younger, I would get home late from work, eat a bit, take a walk, and lay down on the couch facing the tube. The youngest would lie atop me and the oldest would lie in front of me in almost spoon fashion, with her head resting on my arm.


On this particular occasion, it was very late and I think the youngest might have been in bed already. My recollection is it was just me and the oldest who was about 6 or 7 at the time. We were watching Beavis and Butthead together. It was an episode where they go to visit a psychic. She looks into this crystal ball and says, "I see you are not ze Aaaa students." BnB are unimpressed. "And I see you are not ze Bbbb students." They're slightly more surprised. "And I see you are not ze Ccccc students!" Their mouths are now agape and they're absolutely astonished that this woman can tell all this just by looking into the crystal ball.


It's pretty funny. (Well, for those of us sufficiently demented to watch it in the first place.) In any case, my daughter turns around and says to me, "Daddy, I love Beavis and Butthead, but nobody's that stupid. Not really."


Poor kid. I didn't have the heart to tell her.


k



#61774 03/20/02 09:07 PM
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Dear FF: There can be a brief but appealing period of skepticism in the young. Of all too short duration. One day while walking to the beach with my kids, the next to oldest girl announced that she wanted the middle swing at the beach. I told her to remember that there might be another little girl already in it, so she might have to wait a bit. She said "You make her get off it." I said, "Her daddy might be bigger than I am." With the utmost conviction she replied "Oh, daddy, nobody's bigger than you are!"

Then there are adult skeptics. The guy across from me in Organic Chem lab mentioned that he had vacationed in Europe, spending several days in Budapest, and after visiting several museums, his friends talked him into going by himself to visit a local spiritualist, who was alleged to be remarkably successful in getting messages from departed family members.
He said he didn't believe in spirtualism. But they said:"You'll be surprised about the things he can tell you about your great-grandparents." Having nothing better to do that afternoon, he decided to go.
He went alone. There was no answer to the doorbell, but he tried the knob, and found the door to be unlocked. So he went in, and knocked on the door that bore the spiritualist's name. Again, there was no response. He noticed a large gong with a mallet hanging beside it, and took the mallet and hit the gong very hard. Instantly the door opened, and there stood a little wizened male grinning at him. "So I punched him in the mouth as hard as I could." "What in hell did you do that for?" My mother told me always to strike a happy medium."


#61775 03/20/02 09:15 PM
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"So if you're a true believer, then you are an antisceptic?"

Dear WO'N: If you're a true believer, you're an "anti"-dope.


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