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Since hearing about this Andrea Yates murder case, I've been wondering why we still use the term, "husband" in marriage. It seems clear to me that her spouse did not "husband" her in the original meaning of the word, ignoring her obvious emotional instability, and impregnating her repeatedly anyway. You lawyers, where does husbandly responsibility begin and end? Why do the courts not find any culpability in him?
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Carpal Tunnel
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It sounds like he was one of those in name only, Geoff. Sometimes justice and the law have little in common.
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You lawyers, where does husbandly responsibility begin and end? Why do the courts not find any culpability in him?
Not knowing all of the facts of the case, just having seen a few snippets about it on the news (I find it too horrible an event to really want to know that much about it), I would question what the charge would be? And how would it be applied? What about her parents? Were they around? What about the doctors? Any siblings? Perhaps neighbours. Where would the chain of responsibility end?
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the more your read about the case, the sadder it is. she had gone to doctors for help.. but most looked at the facts, 4 boys, under the age of 5, and well, of course she was tired, and depressed and had a hard time consentrating, and yes, it was natural to think you couldn't cope.
her husband has stayed by her side, and been supportive. i think their deep religious values impared there ability to see the situation. many religious people truly believe that god won't let you down. just pray harder.
she had real, organic brain disease. that is what schizophrenia is. and she had a chemical imbalance from pregnancy-- i suspect these combined to make it hard for her to effective communicate how ill she was. Still she had sought out help, and her health coverage allowed 5 (or was it 7?) sessions.
people don't want to see that family members are sick. (especially mental illness. there is such a stigma attached.)
idealy, he should have done more, been more aware. reality is, he didn't want to admit to himself how bad things were. its hard to know how you would have behaved. how much would you have just chalked up to just a complaining wife. which of us hasn't at least once mistaken something serious for something mild? most times, the consiquences aren't as serious.
i have a friend who almost died of a hang nail .. she didn't think a 'little infection" in a hang nail was a big deal! but it went septic. she required surgery to have it drained, and had a reaction to the anestesia.. and went into heart failure! for a hang nail! fortunately, she survived, but how little it takes to end a life.
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i have a friend who almost died of a hang nail ... but how little it takes to end a life.
How true Helen. I had a friend who had an accident that injured his leg in June, infection set in. He lost the leg in September, but the infection continued to ravage his body. (Too busy to take the meds correctly and often enough.) The infection weakend his heart and lungs and he developed an abcess on the brain. On Jan. 5th, he died of a heart attack in his sleep as a result. He was 49 years old and had been in excellent health until then.
I miss him and nothing will ever bring him back to me. People just don't understand how fragile life is.
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Dear Angel,
That is so sad to read--your friend dying because he neglected to take care of himself!
It seems that we do tend to look the other way when we should be vigilant. On the other hand, we're often afraid of being busy bodies--interfering when we have no business interfering. But a husband? Yeah, a husband has the responsibility to know how his wife is feeling. You work so hard in bringing yourselves together when courting, and then you marry, and too often all effort stops. That's the case too often as I've observed.
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we do tend to look the other way when we should be vigilant. On the other hand, we're often afraid of being busy bodies...
How true! I have a chum who has a thyroid condition which requires taking daily pill ... because her job as a flight attendent has her in different time zones she wonders should she take the pill on home time or in the morning time wherever she is ? Result, she often skips the medicine.
But I keep being a busy body!
On the other subject : Every woman I have ever talked to on the subject of childbirth has said she suffered with some type of depression; the depressions ranging from mild to severe.
Too often depression after childbirth is dimissed as a temporary thing which time will take care of.
I understand that - not too long ago - post partum depression was not considered a "real" medical condition... but was taken as a catch-all phrase for any depression following childbirth.
And four boys in five years?! That would put a strain on the body and mind of the healthiest of women.
Probably a good thing I wasn't on the jury ... I would have had trouble with the restrictive choice between guilty or not guilty.
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I guess this all goes back to the old line too: "Any man can father a child...." Her husband fathered the children. How much responsibility did he have towards his wife and kids tho? He fathered one after another, much too close for her to handle. Why isn't he responsible???
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autonomy is a double edge sword. Yes, he fathered them, and yes, he didn't use birth control after the fourth child, even though her doctors expressed the opinion that a she should wait a while before having more children, since she has such post partum problems, and yes he is wanted home schooling, so she didn't have the oldest in kindergarden, and the middle ones in a pre-school.
but if we as woman want autonomy, we can't then turn around and say, he is just as guilty as i am.. he made me do it.
no one made her not use birth control. no one made her carry the pregnacy to term. no one made her do it.
if you want to say its his fault, then, she, and women, go back to being chattle, unable to deside our own destiny, unable to make decisions for our selves.
she made the decision to marry him. she decide not to countermand his dictats. now circumstances; controling, conservative religous husband, and in laws, isolation, and real medical problems all played a part.
her decision was, she was a bad mother, and by being a bad mother, she was destroying her children. leading them to evil. to protect them for her(self) she killed them. Obviously, not sound thinking. (that she had twice tried to kill herself should have clued other into the fact she was unable to think soundly.)
but she did have choices. and while he seems like a real shit, and seems to have a miopic view of the world-- she acted.
i think there is a lot of blame to go round. and sick as she was, she should not be treated criminaly for what she did. but i don't want to go back to a world, where the law hold i am incapable of making decisions, and i am mere chattel of my husband, father, brother or son-- which ever male the law decides. and that i am not a responsible adult.
should he be procecuted for child endangerment, leading to the death of the children? was he wrong to have left kids with her? yeah. but the fact is, it ain't going to happen.
it not that he doesn't have some responsiblity in this.. he does. but she does too.
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it not that he doesn't have some responsiblity in this.. he does. but she does too.
Exactly, Helen! I was not trying to dismiss her responsibility, only point to the fact that he is responsible too. He fathered the children, gave them life. And I feel he is partly responsible for their deaths too.
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