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Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56109
02/10/02 01:05 AM
02/10/02 01:05 AM
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Pivetta Offline OP
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Pivetta  Offline OP
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Sometimes I hear well-spoken people say, "I wish I *would have* known." Is this grammatically correct? Shouldn't it be, "I wish I *had* known"?


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56110
02/10/02 01:53 AM
02/10/02 01:53 AM
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GallantTed Offline
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Howya Pivetta

I'm probably not the best one ta be welcomen ya, but there doesn't seem ta be anyone else around.

There's usually loads of brainy people here what can answer yer questions.

I'm not so sure meself and at furst glance I'd say yer right ta question "I wish I would have known".

On the other hand, ya always say "I wish I were" in the conditional so mabee it's a folly on from that or somethin.

I can't be knowen meself, but I'm sure someone will help ya soon.

Be seein ya

GallantTed - yer trouble shooten, problem solven Teddy Bear.

PS - what's anarcho-capitalism? Can bears catch it?


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56111
02/10/02 02:21 AM
02/10/02 02:21 AM
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wwh Offline
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Dear Pivetta: I have forgotten all the grammar I once knew, and all our experts must be watching the Olympics. I would never use the "would" in your example. "I wish I could have known.." seems OK, or simpler "I wish I had known."


. #56112
02/10/02 02:32 AM
02/10/02 02:32 AM
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Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56113
02/10/02 03:39 AM
02/10/02 03:39 AM
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Sarasota, Florida, US
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slithy toves Offline
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Dear Pivetta,

I'm a stranger here myself, and I hope you will be made to feel as welcome as I have.

"If I had known" is the way to go in the subordinate clause. "Would have" sounds right in the main clause. It has to do with what happened first and what came later.


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56114
02/10/02 01:06 PM
02/10/02 01:06 PM
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Faldage Offline
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"I wish I *would have* known." ... "I wish I *had* known"?

See this http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/tense.html for a glimpse into the wonderful world of nuance the English language is capable of.


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56115
02/10/02 02:14 PM
02/10/02 02:14 PM
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New England, USA
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wow Offline
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Welcome to the Board Pivetta!
For what it's worth, when I am truly rueful I say :
"I wish I'd've known" which, I guess, is a contraction of "I wish I would have known" ... it's all too complicated, this language of "ours!"
I tend to go with what sounds right but I wish I'd paid more attention in school.

Tsuwm will help you out ... now that he is no longer hiding his brilliant light under a barrel! (See "a nother promise" thread in Information and Announcements)


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56116
02/10/02 10:23 PM
02/10/02 10:23 PM
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Louisville, Kentucky
Jackie Offline
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A hearty welcome to you, Pivetta! I'd sort of thought that 'I had known' was correct, and the other a sloppy but common idiom. Apparently I was wrong.
Looked at your bio, Sweetie--you seem to have enough quirkiness to fit right in here! Re: your special interest, musick likes baseball pretty well, but you really ought to check in with AnnaStrophic and Faldage, for some real die-hard fan discussion. Just a suggestion.


Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56117
02/11/02 01:23 AM
02/11/02 01:23 AM
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Sydney, Australia
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hev Offline
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"I wish I *had* known"

This one gets my vote, Pivetta.

While we are at it, you get my WELCOME and MaxQ gets my hearty thanks for expressing how I feel about this site:

I have stayed out of this thread to date because my grasp of grammar isn't worth ...(read MaxQ's post for the rest) ... ask more questions - that way I can learn vicariously.

Glad you're (both) here

Hev

"no longer a stranger..."

Re: Past Conditional for Subjunctive? #56118
02/11/02 03:07 AM
02/11/02 03:07 AM
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Bobyoungbalt Offline
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Welcome Pivetta!

Fans of mystery novels (I am one) refer to the "Had-I-But-Known School" of mystery writing, the greatest practitioner of which was Mary Roberts Rinehart. That's a rather old-fashioned way of expressing the same thing.



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