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this is cut from an announcement made to day:
....imposing a new security fee of $2.50 per enplanement for passengers on domestic or foreign air carriers originating at airports within the United States. The fees are to pay for the costs of providing Federal civil aviation security services.
Passengers will not be charged for more than two enplanements per one-way trip or four enplanements per round trip with a maximum fee of $10 on a round-trip ticket....
enplanements gets my vote for the years uglies word.. (it should at least be emplanements..just to make it easier to say..)
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Since "enplane" is in dictionary, "enplanement" seems OK. It is the necessity, embarrassment, and inconvenience of it that is ugly. The suggestion of making available identity cards that would entitle passengers to bypass that checkpoint quickly sounds very sensible.
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ID cards are a bad idea. It is already bad - if you don't have some sort of photo ID, you're already a suspicious person. ID cards are just a way to ensure that someone without one automatically provides a police officer with "reasonable suspicion" and even "probable cause." It does not confer any protection (civil rights or otherwise) and ID cards are commonly faked (the good ones are expensive, but easily obtained). ID cards do not protect society, they simply reduce freedom and become a de facto internal passport. I don't care how many enplanement fees I have to pay - I prefer it to a national ID card. I will refuse to get one. I am a veteran, and I fought for liberty, not so a bunch of damn sheep can sell it for completely illusory security.
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
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I carried a draft card with my photo and thumb print and Army Serial Number for many years as required, and had no problem. Massachusetts put my social security number and photo on my driver's license, and I never had a problem. The ID cards could be optional, for frequent fliers only. I think proper planning could eliminate problems. The police could hardly detain anyone just because they were not a frequent flier.
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Bravo Bryan. I agree entirely.
No, Bill, it's not the same thing as a draft card or a drivers license. I have carried the one too, and didn't mind and still carry the driver's license. They are/were issued for specific purposes, although the driver's license has since become the closest thing we have to an all-purpose ID. But no one is compelled to produce it for ID purposes, although you might have difficulty getting a check cashed, or buying cigarettes (if you are borderline age) if you elect to refuse to use your license as an ID. Every modern tyranny, like Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, to name the two most obvious examples, has been quick to force its citizens to carry some sort of ID document by which the government enforcers can control them. Even some old tyrannies did the same (remember Jean Valjean and his yellow passport?).
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I think you have to separate the mechanism from the process. There's nothing wrong with photo IDs per se, but in fact they rapidly become debased currency because they are so easy to fake. Therefore, you're quickly back to ths situation where everyone carries 'em and no one trusts 'em, especially in a security area. So for that reason, I believe that the introduction of ID cards is a waste of time (and our money).
The use of photo IDs to enforce the "law" or not is a matter of political will and its attitude to civil rights. I would not expect photo IDs to be used for control purposes in a democracy. I would expect them to be used for control purposes in a tyranny.
Like BYB and WWH, I've been carrying a photo ID licence, although not for as long as those two reprobates. I think I've had to produce it, what, twice, in the five years I've had it. But more importantly, if you travel externally you already have a photo ID. It's called your passport ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I'll bet a lot of frequent fliers would very much like to have an ID card that would save many minutes waiting in line, being groped and denuded. I think they could be made extremely hard to fake. I think the fears of their being abused by the government are exaggerated. If the governments wanted that power, they could get it into legislation.I don't need one because I ain't going nowhere.
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I think the fears of their being abused by the government are exaggerated. If the governments wanted that power, they could get it into legislation.I don't need one because I ain't going nowhere.
I dunno wwh, that nowhere that you ain't going, might be jail, if you don't have your papers in order.
Bye the bye, you do don't you?
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Dear Milum: I understand perfectly well that a National, compulsory ID card could be abused.
But I do not see how a voluntary one could be abused.
And the police get serious problems if the detain people without probably cause. Since I had my wallet stolen a couple years ago, I have been strolling around LA where cops shoot people on small provocation;, without any identification whatsoever, and no anxiety.
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tell that to the young (early 30's) graduate student, who has been keep in custody for 3 months-- he was staying the hotel across the street from the WTC, and when his room was being cleared, they found a ground to air radio in the safe..
it must be that he was part of it? right? he is staying in a hotel at WTC, has an ground to air radio, he is an arab, named mohammed, and living in US on student visa..
well it turns out a pilot left it there-- the pilot didn't know where he had left it.. and had reported it stolen... only the pilot was the previous occupant of the same room, -- and there is no record of any communications from ground to either plane...and no prints but the pilots on the radio.
you might feel safe walking in LA, dear Dr. Bill.. but should some mugger dress himself up as an elderly white man, in order to be able to sneek into elevators, where he rips off his mask and assalts people.. see how easy it is to walk arround.. profiling... whether racial or ethnic or sexual is real..
you fit the profile of a victim, not of an agressor.. but if the profile is vague.. male, mid thirties, arabian.. or young, tall, thin and black.. it no fun, and you don't get treated okay..
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Dear MaxQ: Do tell us what Ben Franklin would say about a voluntary ID card. Maybe he would say that it was dangerous for all the signers of the Declaration of Independence to have done so. He might tell me that it is dangerous for me to use my initials on the board, and in my bio have my full name, and have my e-mail address wwhunt@pacbell.net. If anybody is interested, my address is 15743 Covello St. Van Nuys, CA 91406
To recapitulate, I see no danger in a VOLUNTARY ID card. And nobody yet has given any sensible reason why I should fear to have one. If this be treason, make the most of it.
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Dear MaxQ: If this is the Franklin quote you were referring to, you should read it again, carefully.
I believe you have completely misunderstood it. He was not advocating caution, quite the opposite.
They that can give up essential
liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
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I must draw a distinction between a national ID card and a frequent flyer card.
The national one is only useful to tyranny - democratic/republic governments do not need it. A national ID is a prelude to authoritarianism, the same way personal weapon prohibition is.
A frequent flyer card is *much* more easily faked, since law enforcement would not administer them. Seriously, the IL commercial driver's license scandal should be a clue that we don't want protection from terrorism to ride on such a silly thing as an ID even administered by the state (or the State). Forget one administered by airlines or some such foolishness.
It may not seem like I've come up with "a sensible reason" but I think I have. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I suppose my tolerance for inconvenience is a bit higher, too.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
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I'm a little confused about this hubbub. I don't see what is particularly nefarious about having a picture I.D. Our driver’s licenses have our pictures on them. If you want to cash a cheque, a picture I.D. is a good indication to the merchant that you are indeed the owner of those cheques.
You are already registered with a social security number, are you not? How does adding a picture make it bad all of a sudden?
More importantly, don’t you believe that the intentions of your government are good? I believe my government has the best of intentions for us. Sometimes I don’t always agree with what they do but I do believe they have the people’s best interest at heart.
If you believe your government has some machiavellian intentions then you have more important things to worry about…like ousting that government pronto.
I don’t mind being identified as exactly who I am.
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bel, though we live in different countries, I agree entirely with you. I can't believe that anyone in the government is there purely for personal gain. Though national politicians seem to put a lot of spin on what they say, they all see public office as an opportunity to change some aspect of society for the better, whatever their intended method for doing that is. Plus, needing a majority vote to be elected, there are much easier ways to achieve personal gain.
And about national ID cards, I've often thought that some type of general, customizable card that could function as drivers license, SS card, debit card, library card or whatever would be very convenient. Surely it could be made so that certain companies' computers could only access specific info on the card, thus allowing for multiple functions. And maybe you could put some optional info on it if you think it would be convenient. Obviously, there could be problems with this, but I don't see it as altogether evil, and I'm certainly not an authoritarian.
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For all who have participated here I suggest a good book : "Six Days" by Brendan DuBois available in US and UK publisher Little Brown. In hard cover - ISBN 0-316-85481-6 or in C format ISBN0-316-85477-8
Also a cautionary tale about homeland security!!!
I register as opposed to a national ID card.
Fer heaven's sake there are books out in general circulation about how to establish a different identity, fake IDs and even passports ... just for starters.
Even a voluntary card could be easily faked ... there's always someone who can find a way around any law or regulation if they're up to no good!
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I have always felt that it is my duty to be stingy with my freedom. A little trimmed off here, some bartered over there, and the next thing you know, you have next to no freedom and very little liberty to pursue personal happiness. I don't know what will deter bad guys, they are so very determined to be bad. This does not give the government or anyone else the right to restrict my freedom.
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I can't believe that anyone in the government is there purely for personal gain.
I'm-m-m... also try-y-ying... r-r-resisting...tempt-t-t-ation...
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Ok, Max, I get what you're alluding to. The electoral system is slightly flawed, but it usually works without any problems. There were specific reasons for it's inception and apparently no one has introduced a better system that everyone will agree on, so it's there. Plus, that only pertains to the presidential election, nothing with Congress, which is more important anyway. But musick, I'd love to know what you're talking about. I still hold that public office is by far not the most efficient method of personal gain. Even if you do get elected, there are so many levels of legislation and so much media coverage that it would be near impossible to do something sneaky. Maybe I'm just naive, but y'all sound like weirdo conspiracy theorists. 
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Maybe I'm just naive, but y'all sound like weirdo conspiracy theorists.Maybe neither, Jazzo - but think of it as capitalism proved in action: 1 All government is *our power vested in others (ever read any Rousseau yet? - you might find him interesting, especially from a 'foundation of America' perspective) 2 All government depends for its existence on the wealth created by its citizens - in other words, they also spend *our money 3 The amount of power this structure gains thus tends to rise in inverse proportion to the freedoms enjoyed by its citizens 4 This is why historically no government has ever willingly ceded power back to its citizens - the motivation of the system runs entirely the other way 5 Thus it is vital that all who believe in individual liberty and personal freedom have to fight a continuous battle simply to maintain the advances forged over many hundreds of generations A simple illustration: we tend to think of our modern times as the acme of freedom and liberty... well, in many ways yes, but before the French revolution I could have travelled throughout Europe without a passport, and would have paid no income tax. Like many such increases of control by the mechanisms of the modern nation state at the cost of its individual citizens, these features were brought in as expediencies at the time of conflict (the Napoleonic Wars). Guess what? ~ these 'temporary measures' never got repealed! So, yes, Jazzo, keep a sensible head on your shoulders about loony conspiracist rednecks by all means, but don't underestimate the price we must pay in each and every generation to sustain the ideal of personal liberty: the price is vigilance. A suspicious scrutiny of anything proposed by any government, especially under pretext of 'special measures in times of war', is merely the by-product.... 
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...before the French revolution I could have travelled throughout Europe without a passport, and would have paid no income tax...these features were brought in as expediencies at the time of conflict (the Napoleonic Wars). Guess what? ~ these 'temporary measures' never got repealed!
If I recall correctly, the US income tax was also a temporary measure, passed to finance World War I. I need not point out there, I did, anyway that it too has yet to be repealed.
Don't know what Ben Franklin's take on that would be (except I suspect he would agree with Santayanna)
("...are doomed to repeat them")
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...the US income tax was also a temporary measure, passed to finance World War I...
But since then we've never actually® been out of war long enough for "the people" to do anything about it!
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But no matter how we moan about the income tax, without it the US could never have achieved the status we now have. I think I get more benefits from my taxes than any other country could provide.
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wwh - I agree completely with the conclusion and your word choice as far as *quantity goes, but I'm not sure the 'type' of status and benefits we enjoy are currently moving in the *correct direction. IMHO, of course.
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I am compelled to remark on the beautiful lack of animosity in this thread. I shy away from politics, but I'm happy to see it *is possible to discuss such without imagined offenses taken. Even though it is a non-word thread 
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As I said in another post, I worry about the future of a culture that mocks virtues, and enriches pornographers. We still have freedom to influence legislation, but too many (including me) are lax about being active in the political process.
I got a very interesting e-mail about the over-permissive parents of John Walker. I did not know before that it says right on passports that enlisting in a foreign army voids citizenship. I hope they shove that clause right up his cloaca.
P.S. Dear AnnaStrophic: I am so anxious to keep the Board running in a friendly way, I am trying very hard not to hurt anybody's feelings. If I err unwittingly, sock it to me. That's an order.Please.
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4 This is why historically no government has ever willingly ceded power back to its citizens - the motivation of the system runs entirely the other wayThe only 'sneaky' thing I may have implied (unintentionally) is that this is not clear to most people (whether misinformed or unaware) and not part of what in most mediums sell. ... and tax rebates don't *define "power", at least not to me. My apologies to all for perpetuating a political discussion, but as I've just seen AnnaS remarks, I hope my feeble attempts at bringing the definition of a term to focus will help us maintain this *course
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Jazzo, you are, I believe, correct in the main in your belief that it's either difficult or impossible to get really rich out of politics. But I just finished reading in the latest Smithsonian magazine, which I received today, an article about William Marcy Tweed, the infamous Boss who ran New York, through Tammany Hall, for years. He made enormous amounts of money for himself and his cronies, all by means which depended on political position and power, but not necessarily high positions (which he never held). I believe we are going to find out more about modern money making through political contact with the Enron scandal. We may find that there are more people making big bucks through politics than we thought possible. The Tweed article shows how large sums can be gathered from almost insignificant offices or positions. I beleive there was a minor scandal some time ago having to do with the Bureau of Indian Affairs and that there are huge sums involved in a lawsuit now going on.
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Like them fellers said.
One of the main avenues for legitimate accrual of wealth from holding or having held high political office in today's world seems to be the appearance/guest speaking/lecture circuit, mostly in the US. If you have been a politician of some note during what the Chinese like to term "interesting times" (an old Chinese curse says "May you live during intereting times"), you seem to be able to cut fancy book deals, too.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Yes, Cap K there is quite a few dollars to be made in the lecture circuit and through book deals ... IF people want to hear or read what you have to say. Iffy business that!
As to taxes : before WWII it cost a child 10 cents to go to a (double feature) movie with cartoons and a newsreel to boot. In 1942 a penny tax was added to "help the war effort." It was increased a couple of times and is still being collected.
Reminds me of the time I was crossing a toll bridge on the only road to our summer vacation spot ... I asked the toll taker "Haven't we paid for this bridge yet?" And he responded. "You sure have, but now we need to paint it."
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WOW, I have to relate the latest brilliant idea of the government of Maryland.
There have been tolls on I-95 ever since it was built. The toll has been $1.00 per automobile (more for trucks) for quite a few years. Last year, in an economy move, it was decided to raise the toll to $2.00, but collect it on only one side of the highway. So the tollbooths were removed from the southbound side and you pay the toll on the northbound side. This means it's free to enter the state (from Delaware) but it costs you to leave. I think there is a deep meaning here, but not sure what it is.
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deep meaningIt's the same here in Wales Bob - costs about $10 to cross the wonderful suspension bridge over the tidal race River Severn to get into this green and pleasant land, but escaping into the squalid grime of England is free... market economics, really!
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Same deal with the Golden Gate bridge... you don't pay for the privilege of Sausalito & Marin County, but if you want back into the city, fork it over!
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New Jersey. You can get in for free but it costs to get out.
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Well thats a no brainer-- every one is willing to pay what ever it costs to get out of New Jersey!
(just the usually ny/nj rivally--WO'N, as i am sure you know..)
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Hey, I can honestly say I know the feeling ... clock this: http://www.bacchus-marsh.com/Files/Part 24.htmAbout halfway down ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I think it's not the parochial NY/NJ competition but even more so: getting into Manhattan (AM) - from Jersey, Yonkers, the Island, whatever - vs leaving (PM). If I recall the tollbooths correctly (pay to get in, sail right through going home), it means relief during the evening rush hour -- one less delay on the trip home, when everyone is more tired, and more hu/arried, and more impatient...At least that's the rationalization for the direction of the unilateral toll gates I've always accepted. Maybe I'm naive.
Alternatives?
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It's also the same procedure between the Philadelphia area and New Jersey now...$3 to cross from NJ to PA over the Ben Franklin, Commodore Barry, and Walt Whitman (yeah!) bridges, no charge coming back. Traffic management it was called...not to mention the salaries saved by trimming half the tolltakers, and slowly raising the fee, like an insidious salestax. It started out as $1, then $2, now suddenly it's $3...be $5 before ya know it! Gotta keep painting those bridges! Just like the NJ sales tax they introduced somewhere around '70'-'72..."TEMPORARY 2% for budgetary relief GUARANTEED to be repealed in 2 years time"...now 6%, thank you.  And Helen, how much will it cost me? Get me oudda here, PLEASE!!!! "GET OFF THE TURNPIKE!"®
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Up by the Delaware Water Gap, down by Trenton, Wilmington, wherever. Get in free but pay to get out.
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...down by Trenton [...] Get in free but pay to get out.When working in Somerville NJ, I attempted to save my employer about $13,000 a year by using an alternative haulier... I got a very worried call from the chief accountant, to the effect that "did I *really want to do that? ~ the current haulier has... connections. Of the Trenton kind." I saved $13,000 another way, and didn't sleep wid da fishes
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In reply to:
everyone is willing to pay what ever it costs to get out of New Jersey!
It's like Buffalo NY. There seem to be any number of people who are from Buffalo, but I've never heard of anyone who moved to Buffalo. No wonder, after their last snowstorm. I can't figure out why the place isn't totally depopulated.
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``Who and what is Mr. Brope?'' demanded the aunt of Clovis suddenly.
Mrs. Riversedge, who had been snipping off the heads of defunct roses, and thinking of nothing in particular, sprang hurriedly to mental attention. She was one of those old-fashioned hostesses who consider that one ought to know something about one's guests, and that the something ought to be to their credit.
``I believe he comes from Leighton Buzzard,'' she observed by way of preliminary explanation.
``In these days of rapid and convenient travel,'' said Clovis, who was dispersing a colony of green-fly with visitations of cigarette smoke, ``to come from Leighton Buzzard does not necessarily denote any great strength of character. It might only mean mere restlessness. Now if he had left it under a cloud, or as a protest against the incurable and heartless frivolity of its inhabitants, that would tell us something about the man and his mission in life.'' (Saki, The Secret Sin of Septimus Brope)
Presumably the same applies to those who come from Buffalo.
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It's like Buffalo NY. There seem to be any number of people who are from Buffalo, but I've never heard of anyone who moved to Buffalo. No wonder, after their last snowstorm. I can't figure out why the place isn't totally depopulated.Born and raised here in Buffalo, but then you knew this would get my goat! Some of us love the snow. We have wonderful skiing and snowmobiling here. Some of us embrace rather than complain about the weather here. I have visited many places, but have never found another I would want to call my home. The summers are cooled by the breeze off Lake Erie. The snow is deposited in our snowbelt area for winter festivals and outdoor activities. It's a wonderful place to live. We have a melting pot of cultures here and some of the finest take out food in the world. It's my home and I choose to stay here, as do many around here. Many leave the city, but many more return when they realize there is nothing as good as being here. And as far as the snowstorm...we got over 7 feet of snow in three days. It took us a grand total of 3 days of snow removal and all industry was up and running again. My brother moved back here from the D.C. area because he got tired of the area completely shutting down because there was an inch of snow on the ground. Oh, gee, Bobby, my brother used to live near you!
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to come from [Buffalo NY] does not necessarily denote any great strength of character.Unless, of course, they are Buffalo Bills fans! (they of the Four Lost Superbowls) I think persevering through that kind of disappointment is a real credit to their character!
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Unless, of course, they are Buffalo Bill's fans! (they of the Four Lost Superbowls) I think persevering through that kind of disappointment is a real credit to their character!
My cheer is, "Go Bills and take the Sabres with you!"
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being from NYC-- i do have the tendency to see the rest of the US as well, really pretty country, but not really having any other world class cities..
buffalo, NY -- poor thing, suffers from a very bad reputation. Not all of it deserved.
Early on, water falls were used for electricity generation, and being a hop, skip and jump from niagra, buffalo was one of the first cities in US with electricity..it had more electric lights than NYC for a while..
it had its own "world fair" --and the world came! to see all the new products and services to be made with cheap electric power.
like the first few years in Australia, when the blue mountians seemed to define the edge of the world, in early US history, the appalachians created a road block to western expantion. there were very few passes.. and the one that existed, became well known, the delaware gap (NY/NJ/Pennsylvania) and the Cumberland gap
Into this, stepped De Witt Clinton.. and his great ditch..
NY state dug a 300 or so mile canal, connecting the great lakes with NYC. as sparteye pointed out, this lead to a lot of former NYers moving to Michigan.
it also put buffalo at one end of the canal.. goods moved from lake vessels to canal vessels.. buffalo became the great western port of NY-- a gateway to the west..
mind you, it doesn't hold a candle to NYC-but as it is a surprisingly cosmopolitan city..
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But very iffy road signage. Sandra and I came across the bridge from Canada into Buffalo and promptly got buffaloed as to how to get out of the city. The signs after the toll plaza said one thing, and we turned in that direction. And that was the last sign we saw. Took a few turns round the city centre to get us on the right road out of town. Seven feet of snow would have probably made it ever so slightly more difficult ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Seven feet of snow would have probably made it ever so slightly more difficult ... True! But CapK, why were you trying to get OUT of Buffalo? You should have stopped at the Anchor Bar for some great, original, chicken NOT Buffalo wings. Or at Swiston's for a Beef on Weck. [drooling-e]
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Because we had an appointment in Ithaca the next day and things to see and do on the way! Passing through Buffalo at all was actually the result of an earlier navigational accident anyway ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Passing through Buffalo at all was actually the result of an earlier navigational accident anyway ... Sounds like you may have a bit of trouble reading the posted signs? Or are you just highway challenged? 
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There's a classic tap dancing step, a throwback to the Vaudeville days, that's called "the Shuffle Off to Buffalo" (or sometimes, "Shufflin' Off to Buffalo"). It's a sideway shuffle with the arms swinging in synch with a nautical motion, sort of like Popeye's. Studied tap a long while and always figured the "off to Buffalo" part had something to do with the old Vaudeville circuit, but I'm not really sure. Do you happen to have a local perspective or legend on this, Angel? Or does anyone have the coinage?
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Do you happen to have a local perspective or legend on this, Angel? Knowing nothing about this at all, I still felt it was my responsibility to find an answer! Here is what I have found: The dance: “Shuffle Off To Buffalo”, consisting of a brush, hop, shuffle, hop and flexion of the opposite knee. http://www.dancespirit.com/backissues/feb01/ontap.shtml[see "Litterally Speaking" in the middle of the page) It came from the 1933 Harry Warren/Al Dubin film-musical classic about a Broadway dancer who goes from chorus girl to star one fateful opening night. http://www.musicals101.com/1930film.htm (see 42nd Street at the bottom of the page) Does this answer your question? [very confused-e]
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Great, Angel! Love the "dancespirit" site with the origins of dance-step names! Bookmarked for further study! (that could be a whole nother thread!) And it also had this to say about the origins of steps named after cities: Mark Knowles is an acknowledged authority on tap vocabulary, having authored the
Tap Dance Dictionary, released in 1998. According to Knowles, many steps are
named after the place where they were popularized or created. An example that
should be familiar to you is the Cincinnati (backward moving brush, hop, shuffle,
step). What you might not know (one of many arcane facts collected in his
dictionary), however, is that sometimes the Cincinnati was called Back To The Woods
because the city was covered in trees. Two other examples are the Buffalo (as in
“Shuffle Off To Buffalo”), consisting of a brush, hop, shuffle, hop and flexion of the
opposite knee, and the Charleston, named after the city in South Carolina, where
dock workers could be seen performing a version of this movement where the body
twists while the toes move inward and then outward. So it looks like the step was called "the Buffalo" before the popular song title added the "Shuffle Off." Now that you know the step originated in Buffalo, all you have to do is come up with a local urban legend about it's creation...it seems you have a blank page, Angel, so go for it! I got to researching the song at AllMusic.com and found the Dubin/Warren composition's earliest recording on a Boswell Sisters album (jazz) dated '31, which is a bit peculiar because the film wasn't released until '33. Here's a site with the complete lyrics and credits. There is actually, also, a British version where they changed two words, panties and scanties to clothesies and thosesies.  Panties and scanties a bit too risqué for you Brits back then? Hmmm, ya wouldn't know it now, would'ja? http://www.harrywarren.org/songs/0460.htm"Shuffle Off to Buffalo" was also the title of a Merrie Melodies cartoon released in '33. (taken from the song title) Now off to find the year and creator of the step...shufflin' off to, guess where?....who knows?....
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Good Lord I'm frightened, Are none of you over thirty? Didn't you talk to grannie and grandpa? Once upon a time there was thing called vaudeville. The Vaudevillians went from town to town entertaining poor people. Sometimes the poor people would throw rotten vegetables if they thought the performance bad. The Vaudevillians had an exit dance they called 'Shuffling off to Buffalo'. In other words, getting off stage and out of Dodge and on to the next town.
Remember Children, If a tree falls and no one hears it, it doesn't make a sound. And if we can't document the hatching of an egg with an URL, no egg has ever been hatched.
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buffalo, NY -- poor thing, suffers from a very bad reputation. Not all of it deserved.
Buffalo, in addition to the virtues you enumerated, Helen, is also where the modern grain elevator was invented and first put into operation, an invention which in the long term revolutionized the food industry and, with it, the American economy.
[cross-threading to "fungible", if I ever get around to the post I hope to make there]
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Kieva, you're a real estate lawyer..maybe real estate office are not quite as cut throat as some law offices.
the first place i saw fungible was in a very old NYer cartoon (that had been cut out and framed) in a white shoe law office.
a senior partner at a law firm (read an old fat cat) was explaining to a young turk..
"Associates are fungible, partners are not!"
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Sounds like you may have a bit of trouble reading the posted signs? Or are you just highway challenged?Neither. The entrance to the roundabout which would have taken us onto the bridge at Niagara put us in the wrong lane on the roundabout. We had to change lanes to get to the bridge after we came on to the roundabout. No one would let in and there was the tailback to end all tailbacks forming behind us while we tried, so we decided then and there to go down the QEII highway to St Catherine's and cross over into Buffalo. This didn't require us to use ram-raid tactics to get off the starting blocks, so to speak. And I can read signs just fine. Provided there are any to read ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Helen, if anyone wants to start a thread of lawyer-jokes, I will participate with glee and gusto. Trust me on that: Having probably met more lawyers than you, I probably despise them more.
About two years ago I began conversing with an older gentleman in a check-out line with me and, when he mentioned his distaste for lawyers, I used that line.
Said he, "I'm sure I see more lawyers than you do."
"Are you a lawyer too?" I asked.
"Yes," he said, "but I don't practice the profession."
"Then how is it that you deal with numerous lawyers so often?"
"I'm Chief Justice of the Appellate Court."
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I'm listening to NPR's report on the World Economic Forum's first-ever event held outside of Davos, CH. The participants at NYC's venerable Waldorf-Astoria are being protected by, among other things, "Jersey barricades" (if I heard correctly).
Helen? Whitman? Can anyone splain/etymolify this one?
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Angel, I was given to understand* a few weeks ago that Buffalo generously "donated" snow to its improbably snow-challenged neighbor city, Rochester, for the latter's Winter Festival. 1) Is this true? b) Do y'all want it back? iii) Is there a special name for this kind of donation? ~~~~ *where does that expression come from?
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Jersey barricades
long concrete barriers, about 3' high and impassible to cars, of the sort that might run along the median strip of a highway. Thus they would be readily available to government bodies, and have come into recent prominence as follows:
From the Chicago Tribune newspaper (site requires registration):
For Chicagoans, one unfortunate outcome of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has been the barricading of the plaza at the Chicago Federal Center... The plaza, whose exuberant red "Flamingo" stabile by Alexander Calder provides a perfect counterpoint to the cool black high-rises by Ludwig Mies van der Rohe, long has been a popular gathering place and a symbol of an open and accessible federal government.
But all that changed on Sept. 11 when a scheduled farmer's market on the plaza was shut down because trucks delivering produce were thought to pose a security threat.
Within days, concrete "Jersey barriers" went up around the borders of the plaza, and the once-vibrant public space took on a whole new character. People could still walk through it, passing through small openings in the barriers, but it seemed chillingly empty.
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The proto type Jersey barrier was created by the NJ Dept of Highways-- to discourage NJ drivers from having head on meetings in the middle of some of NJ's older roads..
they were designed to be effective at preventing vehicles that hit them from going over them.. if hit sideways, the gentle ramp at the bottom is designed to lead you back into your lane.. but the angle of incline chages at about 8 inches, and becomes steeper.. this is designed to stop or (worst case) flip a vehicle over.. (thus limiting the injures to only the passengers in one vehicle.)
they have other names.. i vaguely remember the scene in the movie "volcano" set in LA, the la brea tar pits starts spewing out lava.. to stop the lava flow, the FEMA guy calls for ???(K bar?).. what ever.. what he wanted, and got was Jersey barriers
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Dear ASp,
In answer to your questions,
1) Yes!
b) Nope!
iii) Being good neighbors. Buffalo is known as the city of good neighbors
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But very iffy road signage.
The entrance to the roundabout which would have taken us onto the bridge at Niagara put us in the wrong lane on the roundabout.
Poor Dear Kiwi, first its the road signs giving you trouble, then it's the ramps conspiring against you. There, there. [soft stroking angelic-e]
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Passing through Buffalo at all was actually the result of an earlier navigational accident anyway ...and then, when leaving: The entrance to the roundabout ... the wrong lane on the roundabout ... after we came on to the roundaboutWhat roundabout trip you had, Kiwi! The mental picture is scrumptious. We see country drivers in our city too. Buffalo is simply so neighborly a city that it wanted you to come, and didn't want you to leave. But my friend, you must learn when in Rome to drive as the Romans do! (And here's hoping that Kiwi never has to face the notorious drivers and roundabouts of Rome. Right, Emanuella?)
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I once perfected that dive you speak of CK. I was moving back from Mexico, driving a 19seventy-something Monte Carlo coupe, packed to the roof with my belongings and no side mirror on the right. Coming into Houston during rush hour, out of nowhere appeared my exit with the accompanying phrase "next right" as I was merging at 60 miles an hour from the left. I had about 1/4 mile to cross 4 lanes of traffic, hit the exit doing sixty, hit the brakes because it was a circular exit, speed limit 25. The trick was to speed up to the 2 car-length hole and dive. All I can say was "Which bag did I pack my clean undies in?" It was a real thrill, as in Heeeeha. Don't ever want to do it again. Rally racing, Hev? Pffffft! Right, Jackie and Bel?
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Jersey barriers/BarricadesThese cement dividers, as we usually call them, are ubiquitous on our highways, especially on Route 22 (merrily nicknamed "death's highway") in Union County where I grew up in the central part of the state (30 miles from New York). But I've never heard 'em called a Jersey barrier OR barricade. Maybe they only call them that outside of the state...you know, like we call lousy drivers "New York driver!" (had to get one in there, Helen! ) Unless somebuddie's jes puttin' me on...getoudda heer! Joisey Barricades? Fogettaboutit! the only place they use a "Joisey" accent is in Brooklyn...seriously
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Up here in God's Country (Northern New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont) Jersey barriers caused a real problem ... small animals trying to cross the roads would come up against them and were usually killed when trying to get back across. Now the barriers have small hole in the bases, gouged out by construction workers, so little critters can safely get through.
I imagine this might be true in other areas where there is still enough forestation to give homes to woodland critters. When in other states I always check to see if the barriers have similar escape-through holes.
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Minnesota does, and thank you for explaining their purpose! I've been operating under the assumption that the state of MN bought them from Texas, where they move the barriers twice a day to shift the carpool lane from Eastbound to Westbound (or something in that spirit - I'm not sure on the particulars). They've got what looks like an enormous Zamboni that drives along, pulling the barriers over. Works kind of like a zipper, this machine is the zipper head, and the holes and groove at the bottom are the track that the machine follows. I'm clearly not doing a goof job explaining it... I'll search for a link and edit it in if I find one. Hell, at this point, I can barely remember what brought that to mind in the first place.
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not doing a goof job explaining it
Oh, I dunno. I think you did a pretty good goof job explaining it.
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Indeed I did. 
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Does anyone know the name for the zipper barriers? they are a sub-set of jersey barriers.. (and even W O'N acknowledges that Jersey highways are something akin to death row..) and of course they are not called jersey barriers in NJ-- In NJ- they are normal! and you think NY drivers are bad! sheese!
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Well, I was right in associating the image of a zipper. They *do* call the Zamboni-thingy a "zipper machine". Here's a URL to see said thingy in action: http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Zipper_I95_JRB.htmlIt seems to want to call the medians themselves "temporary" or "moveable" barriers. Edit in: Ye gods, there's an acronym (of course) - the Quickchange Moveable Barrier.I was half guessing that the search criteria "zipper barrier" might be a decent Google-whack. No such luck. 9,880 hits. If I look hard enough, some of them might reference unfortunate accidents involving the male anatomy...
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and of course they are not called jersey barriers in NJ-- In NJ- they are normal! and you think NY drivers are bad! sheese!Touché, of troy!!
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Rally racing, Hev? Pffffft!Right, Jackie and Bel? Uh, yesssssssss...I've seen an example of what you mean...still say I'd'a kept up if you hadn't cheated! That was great fun!
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But my friend, you must learn when in Rome to drive as the Romans do! (And here's hoping that Kiwi never has to face the notorious drivers and roundabouts of Rome. Right, Emanuella?)
Rome? Been there, done that. At least in Rome drivers will give in to the inevitable and let you in if you force the issue, because everyone else does it. At Niagara, no one was prepared to give an inch. Most unusual because, by and large, USn drivers are courteous. Must have been something Canadian. Changing tack seemed better than trying to explain away a fault accident in another country to the rental car company. Chicago and LA were child's play by comparison.
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What cities of the world would rate as five worst to drive in? My list would probably read
1)Mexico City
2)Mexico City in an earthquake
3)Mexico City in a snow storm
4)Mexico City during the rainy season
5)Mexico City during the Olympics
Actually, I have never driven there. It is the only city (driving-wise) that has ever scared me spitless, and I don't scare that easy.
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Now Cap, if you had trouble in Niagara you should hesitate to drive in Québec, and definitely avoid Montréal alotogether. The general gestalt is that people try to get away with as much as they can without getting caught. Speed limits are just a suggestions and pedestrians, well I won't get into that but lets just say there is a whole point system established on pedestrians I joke but it is amazing how people from out of province have trouble driving here. They generally leave all gittery and nervous calling "them crazy Québec drivers!" over their shoulders...yet our accident rate is no higher than national average. I guess when you learn to drive in mayhem it becomes regular and normal.
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You lot are doin' me head in. I had trouble at ONE roundabout with ignorant CANADIAN drivers, and all of a sudden I have a problem? Oh, pu-leeze!
Believe it or not, traffic is traffic the world over. The only differences I've found (apart from over half the world driving on the wrong ber-loody side of the damned road) lie in courteousness or the lack thereof. Even in the worst situations, courteous drivers abound. Anyone who can survive driving in Auckland rush-hour traffic is fit to take on the world, at least the bit that I've seen, and that ain't all that inconsiderable ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Somebody's cranky and not getting enough nap time. Boy, you talk about one pear-shaped fuzzy snorty body and someone's vestiginal wings get tied in a knot. Cap. I was not saying you had a problem. I was admitting that we drive like lunatics. Less ignorant than kamakazi I think though. I would think every country has that one city where strangers absolutely hate to drive.
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over half the world driving on the wrong ber-loody side of the damned road
Cain't be USns. We drive on the right side of the road.
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Cain't be USns. We drive on the right side of the road.Which just goes to prove, Dave old mate, that you can be both right and wrong at the same time. A bit like being married, inn't? Is this a YART?
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A bit like being married, inn't?Don't. Just don't.
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right and wrong at the same time
Just like words, Dave, old buddy. As long as ever one else agrees with you, you can drive on whatever side you want.
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. As long as ever one else agrees with you, you can drive on whatever side you want.
Unless, of course, you're into risk, big-time. Isn't that how trends start?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
you can be both right and wrong at the same time. A bit like being married, inn't?
Thank you, CK, for the opportunity to post a recent series from the Non Sequitur comic strip, on the theme of "Why We'll Never Understand Each Other [male/female]"
what she said: I do.
what he heard: Your right to independent thought and ability to form an opinion has been revoked.
what she said: Honey ... why don't we turn off the TV and just talk.
what he heard: Honey ... Why don't you put your head in a vise and I'll turn the handle until your skull explodes.
what he said: Honey ... Are you almost ready yet?
what she heard: Life as we know it will cease to exist unless you can alter the space-time continuum
what he said: Mom is coming over for dinner.
what she heard: Anything less than absolute perfection makes you an utter failure as a wife and mother.
what she said: Tell me the truth, honey ... Do I look fat in this?
what he heard: I'm going to make you wish you were dead for the rest of the week.
what he said: Honey ... Do you know if we have any more triple-A batteries?
what she heard: It's your lot in life to stop whatever it is you're doing in order to serve my every need!
what she said: Drive carefully, dear.
what he heard: You're way too stupid to be trusted driving alone in bad weather.
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Us folks in the west apparently don;t do things right. In the early 1950s the state built a toll road between Boulder and Denver. I don;t know what the toll was, but it probably wasn't much more than 2 cents a mile or so. Anyway, the day the toll road authority paid off its last bond they ripped the tollbooths out. That was probably 25 years ago. And you can still see the foundation for one of them.
TEd
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
But not all traffic rules are the same. It's axiomatic in places where people drive on the right side of the road to yield right of way at an unmarked intersection to another vehicle approaching from the right. And if you are making a left hand turn you yield to the guy approaching you going the other way, right?
Well, not always, according to the car rental people in Adelaide. They warned me that in one of Australia's states, the approaching car has to yield to the car making a right turn. I can't remember which state, but I can remember thinking that is just plain counterintuitive.
TEd
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Yeah, but you gotta understand that the state legislators have shares in the funeral business ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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