|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
this is cut from an announcement made to day:
....imposing a new security fee of $2.50 per enplanement for passengers on domestic or foreign air carriers originating at airports within the United States. The fees are to pay for the costs of providing Federal civil aviation security services.
Passengers will not be charged for more than two enplanements per one-way trip or four enplanements per round trip with a maximum fee of $10 on a round-trip ticket....
enplanements gets my vote for the years uglies word.. (it should at least be emplanements..just to make it easier to say..)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Since "enplane" is in dictionary, "enplanement" seems OK. It is the necessity, embarrassment, and inconvenience of it that is ugly. The suggestion of making available identity cards that would entitle passengers to bypass that checkpoint quickly sounds very sensible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 69
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 69 |
ID cards are a bad idea. It is already bad - if you don't have some sort of photo ID, you're already a suspicious person. ID cards are just a way to ensure that someone without one automatically provides a police officer with "reasonable suspicion" and even "probable cause." It does not confer any protection (civil rights or otherwise) and ID cards are commonly faked (the good ones are expensive, but easily obtained). ID cards do not protect society, they simply reduce freedom and become a de facto internal passport. I don't care how many enplanement fees I have to pay - I prefer it to a national ID card. I will refuse to get one. I am a veteran, and I fought for liberty, not so a bunch of damn sheep can sell it for completely illusory security.
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I carried a draft card with my photo and thumb print and Army Serial Number for many years as required, and had no problem. Massachusetts put my social security number and photo on my driver's license, and I never had a problem. The ID cards could be optional, for frequent fliers only. I think proper planning could eliminate problems. The police could hardly detain anyone just because they were not a frequent flier.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Bravo Bryan. I agree entirely.
No, Bill, it's not the same thing as a draft card or a drivers license. I have carried the one too, and didn't mind and still carry the driver's license. They are/were issued for specific purposes, although the driver's license has since become the closest thing we have to an all-purpose ID. But no one is compelled to produce it for ID purposes, although you might have difficulty getting a check cashed, or buying cigarettes (if you are borderline age) if you elect to refuse to use your license as an ID. Every modern tyranny, like Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, to name the two most obvious examples, has been quick to force its citizens to carry some sort of ID document by which the government enforcers can control them. Even some old tyrannies did the same (remember Jean Valjean and his yellow passport?).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I think you have to separate the mechanism from the process. There's nothing wrong with photo IDs per se, but in fact they rapidly become debased currency because they are so easy to fake. Therefore, you're quickly back to ths situation where everyone carries 'em and no one trusts 'em, especially in a security area. So for that reason, I believe that the introduction of ID cards is a waste of time (and our money).
The use of photo IDs to enforce the "law" or not is a matter of political will and its attitude to civil rights. I would not expect photo IDs to be used for control purposes in a democracy. I would expect them to be used for control purposes in a tyranny.
Like BYB and WWH, I've been carrying a photo ID licence, although not for as long as those two reprobates. I think I've had to produce it, what, twice, in the five years I've had it. But more importantly, if you travel externally you already have a photo ID. It's called your passport ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I'll bet a lot of frequent fliers would very much like to have an ID card that would save many minutes waiting in line, being groped and denuded. I think they could be made extremely hard to fake. I think the fears of their being abused by the government are exaggerated. If the governments wanted that power, they could get it into legislation.I don't need one because I ain't going nowhere.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
I think the fears of their being abused by the government are exaggerated. If the governments wanted that power, they could get it into legislation.I don't need one because I ain't going nowhere.
I dunno wwh, that nowhere that you ain't going, might be jail, if you don't have your papers in order.
Bye the bye, you do don't you?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Milum: I understand perfectly well that a National, compulsory ID card could be abused.
But I do not see how a voluntary one could be abused.
And the police get serious problems if the detain people without probably cause. Since I had my wallet stolen a couple years ago, I have been strolling around LA where cops shoot people on small provocation;, without any identification whatsoever, and no anxiety.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
tell that to the young (early 30's) graduate student, who has been keep in custody for 3 months-- he was staying the hotel across the street from the WTC, and when his room was being cleared, they found a ground to air radio in the safe..
it must be that he was part of it? right? he is staying in a hotel at WTC, has an ground to air radio, he is an arab, named mohammed, and living in US on student visa..
well it turns out a pilot left it there-- the pilot didn't know where he had left it.. and had reported it stolen... only the pilot was the previous occupant of the same room, -- and there is no record of any communications from ground to either plane...and no prints but the pilots on the radio.
you might feel safe walking in LA, dear Dr. Bill.. but should some mugger dress himself up as an elderly white man, in order to be able to sneek into elevators, where he rips off his mask and assalts people.. see how easy it is to walk arround.. profiling... whether racial or ethnic or sexual is real..
you fit the profile of a victim, not of an agressor.. but if the profile is vague.. male, mid thirties, arabian.. or young, tall, thin and black.. it no fun, and you don't get treated okay..
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,317
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
596
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
