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#53087 01/18/02 01:04 PM
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Jackie Offline OP
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Yes, I am serious. I found out yesterday that my dear friend Geoff had received some private messages, and as a result decided he does not belong here, and deleted this place from his computer. [pause to try and regain control e]

I don't know what was said, or by whom. But I didn't want him to depart unknown and unmourned. I am putting this in this category because humor is where he felt the most comfortable. I find it extremely ironic that, just two days ago, I wrote to him and told him that his posts seemed to indicate he was feeling more sure of himself. [another pause...] I just want to curl up on somebody's lap.




#53088 01/18/02 01:23 PM
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Stick and Stone may break my bones
But words will never harm me!


we here know that is not true-- we come here because we value words-- and we should recognize that the pen (or keyboard!) is truly a might scepter- and sometimes we are careless about how we use them.

It's hard-- yes, i come here and open up to everyone here-- i value your words (as i hope you value mine) and because i do, i open myself up to being hurt by your words..

any place where the are more than 2 people, there is some sort of politics going on-- friend form, cliques form, parties form-- and some are going to serious disagree, and some are going to become allies..That is human nature..

It saddens me when some one comes here, joins us, and then is savaged by words. I don't know what is worse -- to be publicly ripped to shreads, or to be privately! some time i think a public display of anger/hostility is better--

It has happened, sometimes seriously, sometimes in jest -- and when it does, when i see someone, who's words i value being attached-- i come to their defense-- as do many other here.

I don't know the solution.. i just hope i can learn to be as careful about how i use powerful words as i am when ever i use other tool/devise that has the power to hurt.

Jackie, i know you will do your best to convince Geoff, as you have others, that their contributions here are valued. I don't agree with every one here-- sometime i strongly disagree with positions, thoughts, ideas expressed here. but crossing thread, more than anything, i value the freedom of expression i have here.. and like Kieva, i would much rather have ideas i don't like -- being given a free airing-- than live in world where i could not freely express my own ideas.


#53089 01/18/02 03:10 PM
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wwh Offline
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Dear Jackie: Thanks for posting about Geoff. You mentioned once before that he was vulneerable to criticism, and I think the disagreeable people who have hurt his feelings ought to be identified and shown how much we despise their conduct.
Here is Geoff's e-mail address: geoffs@hevanet.com

Let us all send him e-mail telling him we earnestly entreat him to stay with us.


#53090 01/18/02 05:09 PM
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I have greatly enjoyed Geoff's spirit on this board!! Terrific sense of humor that helps the board.

I have received some nasty PM's myself and each time I reel over why human beings must show their disdain, sense of superiority, and critcism so nastily. I know how Geoff feels, but what's goes around comes around, and I must believe that people who are intentionally cold, cruel, critical, hateful, nasty, superior, poisonous, jabbing, inconsiderate, you name it--it'll hurt you briefly--they are going to suffer eventually.

Sure, a little jiving around it ok--tsuwm gives me grief regularly--and I don't mind it at all that he writes that I am a muddy, dull mud puddle. That's different--but whoever gave Geoff a hard time shouldn't have. He's warm and fun--and is one of the warmest, truest voices we've got on this board.

My two cents and little bit of change left over,
DubDub




#53091 01/18/02 05:14 PM
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old hand
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onya dubdub

stales


#53092 01/18/02 05:47 PM
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I think that PMs are a wonderful way to communicate with other board members about things not necessarily of interest to all. But I don't think that recipient of a nasty PM ought to suffer in silence. I would like to see nasty PMs posted for whole group to see and judge.


#53093 01/18/02 07:05 PM
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dr. bill, anticipating that others may disagree with your last sentence, I for one heartily agree.

IMHO nasty PM's -- which may be coming from only a small number of ayleurs -- have generated so much hurt as to be destructive to our board. One would wish that simple self-restraint would suffice avoid such nastiness, but experience has shown that it does not. To decry it, without doing anything about it except wring our collective hands, is not going to help.

#53094 01/18/02 07:42 PM
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I have trouble imagining a mechanism for regulating nasty PMs that would not compromise the implied privacy of the medium. While the publication of what one felt objectionable would allow the rest of us to determine for ourselves whether we think that categorization appropriate, the originator of the PM could easily object to the public display of what was intended as constructive criticism. I have had misunderstandings with more than one member of this community; it is an occupational hazard of being a Fool. We have generally worked out mutual understanding through PMs but if one of those those PM volleys had gone awry I would not want them broadcast to the community at large. There is one (at least) member of this community that some may feel should be shielded from abuse that I have treated without kid gloves. I honestly believe from the public reactions of this individual as well as through PMs that the person not only does not mind, but appreciates being treated in this manner. Sometimes being pitied can be the worst abuse of all.

I think my point here is that I would find publication (or at least attributed publication) of Private Messages more objectionable than the loss of members of the community. And even if we did encourage publication of Private Messages, would we vote on whether the offended person should leave because of the offense? People who are here for the purpose of being objectionable are not likely to leave for being exposed as being objectionable; we would all know that the person was objectionable anyway. The only consequence I can see resulting from a policy of publishing PMs would be the holding up to ridicule of those who are trying to offer helpful advice.


#53095 01/18/02 08:39 PM
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wwh Offline
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The privacy of PMs applies to everything except nastiness. I simply do not accept the idea that any one of us can be nasty to anyone else and require that it be kept a secret. I think it unlikely that there would be false accusations made.


#53096 01/18/02 08:48 PM
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The privacy of PMs applies to everything except nastiness.

And who is to judge what is nastiness on the part of the sender and what is thin skin on the part of the receiver?


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